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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Explosive shot: 19k hits, 41k crits. Remember, it ticks 3 times so multiply it times 3 for 57k hits, and 123k crits.
    Not only is this close to the others, but it costs half the focus of both KC and CS/AiS and can be used MUCH more often due to procs.
    Just stopping by to state that this isn't really an accurate comparison, as some (many) of those ticks are going to be from LnL procs where multiple explosive shots are rolled into one dot.

    Nevermind that the idea of comparing the "main nuke" damage to gauge pve dps is pretty silly...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Flustered View Post
    Just stopping by to state that this isn't really an accurate comparison, as some (many) of those ticks are going to be from LnL procs where multiple explosive shots are rolled into one dot.

    Nevermind that the idea of comparing the "main nuke" damage to gauge pve dps is pretty silly...
    While yes, comparing a main nuke is silly, nearly every marks ability hits weaker than survival or BM counterpart. And counting many ticks doesn't matter because I said Average. Having alot of ticks wont' increase that number. I'm talking the average damage per cast. Marks fails in focus generators, dumps and its main nuke.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    While yes, comparing a main nuke is silly, nearly every marks ability hits weaker than survival or BM counterpart. And counting many ticks doesn't matter because I said Average. Having alot of ticks wont' increase that number. I'm talking the average damage per cast. Marks fails in focus generators, dumps and its main nuke.
    no flustered is right. you said the average ES tick does 19/41k, so the average ES shot dmg is 3*ES tick, which is wrong, because an ES does not tick for 3 times on average. (When firing 3 explos back to back, you get 8 ticks of ES instead of 9) thus your estimation is off by some percent (lets say a guessed 5%)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    no flustered is right. you said the average ES tick does 19/41k, so the average ES shot dmg is 3*ES tick, which is wrong, because an ES does not tick for 3 times on average. (When firing 3 explos back to back, you get 8 ticks of ES instead of 9) thus your estimation is off by some percent (lets say a guessed 5%)
    Even if the averages are slightly inflated the point still stands. Per cast, its more damage and more focus efficient, whether under LnL or not.

  5. #25
    The Patient
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    Nangz, what are you trying to achieve by your comparison? Just focusing on single abilities does not give you a solid comparison of the full package... If you compare the masterys of the differnt speccs, you will see that mm is the only one whoms mastery does not affect our main abilities. Instead it synergices with our autohit. Secondly, you have forgotten about Piercing Shots which affect our aimed, steady and chimera shots. I agree with you that MM could be buffed slightly, but balancing is not achieved by comparing single abilities.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    While yes, comparing a main nuke is silly, nearly every marks ability hits weaker than survival or BM counterpart. And counting many ticks doesn't matter because I said Average. Having alot of ticks wont' increase that number. I'm talking the average damage per cast. Marks fails in focus generators, dumps and its main nuke.
    Another thing that always comes when you do these comparisons between the 'best' and 'worst' spec of a certain class is that the playing the 'best' spec is the ones that min-max, often (not always) have better progression and therefore also better gear, so when doing this comparison from the top logs of WoL you won't get anywhere near a proper evaluation.

    And comparing just the main nukes when for example MM's mastery is a passive extra attack, it just doesn't work that way =/

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by refire View Post
    Your numbers are so incredibly low. My average kill command was 53.7k on my last Feng kill. The highest Marksmen hunter ( of two) had an average Aimed of 53k and Chimera of 55k. They are all incredibly close in their current setting.
    I don't know where you guys are seeing this numbers but at least in PvP my Chimera won't hit past 50k (on decent resilience) while I (about 5600 res) get smacked for 80k Kill Commands. Aimed Shot needs to be a reliable proc before I can even consider it part of my damage, PvP obviously.

    I still don't have the PvP weapon which may skew results a little bit but it won't be that much of a change.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    I don't know where you guys are seeing this numbers but at least in PvP my Chimera won't hit past 50k (on decent resilience) while I (about 5600 res) get smacked for 80k Kill Commands. Aimed Shot needs to be a reliable proc before I can even consider it part of my damage, PvP obviously.

    I still don't have the PvP weapon which may skew results a little bit but it won't be that much of a change.
    I believe he's talking PvE average damage, not your (what I assume to be) PvP weapon + trinkets and CDs against you

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    that is what i am saying, take the first boss in HoF - when you hit p2 the 3 "platforms" get locked, if you pet is up there when they lock he is useless the rest of the fight, no resummon, no dismiss, no nothing, as a BM hunter BOOM 50% damage loss right there. Or if you have a slow tank to get to the boss on a platform swap in p1 pet is instant killed (pets have dash so the can outrun everyone on the swap which is intentional for max pet uptime.

    3rd boss in HoF you stand in a puddle for 100% increased damage, the pet doesn't get the buff when in one, and it they pet does not get a boot when you are in one, so the 100% buff is now a 50% buff for BM and 75-80% for SV and Marks.

    in the past even as BM your pet was at MOST 35% of your damage, now your pets in total (main pet stampede dire beast) can be up to 55-60% of your total damage as BM, hunters cannot afford a "pet unfriendly" fight and still even do reasonable damage like they could in the past.

    So it is a very big deal when there are mechanics that do not work on pets, or ones that work directly against them. Blizzard is still building encounters around the fact that pets are no big deal, this needs to change or they need to change Marks (which is so bad it beeds re-doing anyways) into a spec that has 0 reliance on a pet.

    Its obvious they want to keep it world of castercraft. But not even melee is having as hard of a time with some mechanics as BM hunters in the new raid. Hell with the amount of bugs (no pun intented) that people ran into in heart of fear its a wonder it was ever tested.
    The issues you cite on the first boss in HoF is really kind of l2p on the part of your raid - or, you know, you can call your pet back to you. I mean, if a rogue shadowstepped to the boss ahead of the tank and got gibbed, would you say that's a flaw in the design of the encounter, or a mistake in the rogue's play?

    As for Garalon, it is definitely a problem that pets should be getting the buff. But I think the distinction on that fight is that melee are supposed to get an advantage on the legs that ranged don't (due to low uptime in circles/pheremone kiting) and they're pushing hunters into the "ranged" category on that one, even though BM has a large melee component.

    In fact, I can see that design meeting - if BM hunter pets got the same buffs as melee, BM hunters would be "required" for that fight as they'd be able to do double melee damage from their pet (and thus be better than the average ranged class) AND at the same time be a pheremone kite tank - which is the main mechanic of the fight. Edit: In the course of this post I've changed my mind - pets shouldn't be getting the buff unless their master is getting the buff - that part still needs to be fixed.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2012-11-02 at 05:55 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    Marks needs a 100% redesign. With all the bosses being pet unfriendly in Heart of Fear hunters need to have acess to a petless spec just like warlocks have. Garalon has a buff that BM hunters can only get half of because it doesn't transfer to the pet. That right there causes a MASSIVE imbalance from hunters to every single other class spec in game. THat is also not the only fight hunters are pretty much shit on.

    They claim hunters are doing well when they are constantly and consistantly being out performed by most every other class.
    This would be so awesome, atleast having 1 petless spec as a choice would be nice. Marksman is most commonly known as a skilled shooter, a sniper if you will. We don't need to have a sacrifize like locks do but something like "In his persuit for perfection the Marksman decided to drop the pet so he could imrove his shooting abilities".
    Let BM be the pet focused spec, mm the none pet spec and surv something between, 3 nice alternatives.

  11. #31
    Ever since Chimera Shot lost all of its sting components, its been the most boring and pointless ability in the game. It was called 'Chimera' Shot for a reason. It had 3 different effects based on the sting on the target (since Chimaera's in mythology have 3 heads). But now it's just a glorified arcane shot.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    Ever since Chimera Shot lost all of its sting components, its been the most boring and pointless ability in the game. It was called 'Chimera' Shot for a reason. It had 3 different effects based on the sting on the target (since Chimaera's in mythology have 3 heads). But now it's just a glorified arcane shot.
    I agree with this, Chimera shot was so much more thought provoking in WotLK. Ever since Cata it is just a glorified Arcane Shot.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocknrule View Post
    I agree with this, Chimera shot was so much more thought provoking in WotLK. Ever since Cata it is just a glorified Arcane Shot.
    oh come on... while i agree on the chimera being more intresting in wotlk, the argument with the "glorified arcane shot" pulls just as well for Survs Explo, or even worse...
    similar focus cost (20 vs 25), both have a similar proc (normaly: 3 shots of the spell in a row), it's just explo does more dmg and has a cd

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    oh come on... while i agree on the chimera being more intresting in wotlk, the argument with the "glorified arcane shot" pulls just as well for Survs Explo, or even worse...
    similar focus cost (20 vs 25), both have a similar proc (normaly: 3 shots of the spell in a row), it's just explo does more dmg and has a cd
    At least Explosive Shot interacts with another interesting mechanic. The random free procs make it a cool ability. Chimera Shot refreshes Serpent Sting but... that's boring. It should have the old Serpent Sting component back.

  15. #35
    Can't wait untill MM is once again the top dog spec, this is a step in the right direction but i don't think it will be enoguh.
    I love how MM works with the different focus dump depending on %.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    no flustered is right. you said the average ES tick does 19/41k, so the average ES shot dmg is 3*ES tick, which is wrong, because an ES does not tick for 3 times on average. (When firing 3 explos back to back, you get 8 ticks of ES instead of 9) thus your estimation is off by some percent (lets say a guessed 5%)
    Ehm. Didn't they just remove that if you fire them back to back that it does NOT clip one?

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    MM buffed again, seems like Blizzard is a bit desperate to make MM feel accepted... Changing a few numbers won't make a difference in a real raid situation where the mechanics are going to kick you in the teeth.

    WTB Buff to Steady shot and Change MMS to work similar to Maelstrom Weapon(Enha Shaman), where AiS cast speed is reduced by 20% per stack and maybe give it a damage increase per stack too.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rullis View Post
    Ehm. Didn't they just remove that if you fire them back to back that it does NOT clip one?
    yes, it doesnt clip anymore, in the sense that no ticks get lost. what happens is something simlilar as piercing shots works: the ticks that used to clip, now get spread accross the remaining ticks instead of being deleted. (example: 5 ticks a 6k, and 3 ticks a 8k, because the 6k from the 6th tick got spread accros tick 7-9 for an additional 2k each)

  19. #39
    So much for that "buff"

    "Careful Aim now increases the critical strike chance of Steady Shot and Aimed Shot by 75% on targets who are above 80% health, down from 90%"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    So much for that "buff"

    "Careful Aim now increases the critical strike chance of Steady Shot and Aimed Shot by 75% on targets who are above 80% health, down from 90%"
    Thats a buff m8 CA now lasts longer

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