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  1. #141
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Was a bit reluctant to respond when I noticed that Jaylock was the OP... don't like being flamebait, but what the hell here goes...

    Sales figures tell you little about the quality of the game. If anything, subscription does. If people continue to play then you could argue that quality is good. There are also movies that did extremely well in the opening weekend then when it turned out to be bad the public stayed away from it because it sucked and the word spread.

    Also, there's a financial crisis going on worldwide that is hitting some countries VERY hard. In EU for example Spain and Greece are having a very, very hard time. Lots of people losing their jobs and having less to spend in general (even for those that do have jobs). In countries that are less affected people are also cutting back on their expenses. And guess what, most people would probably cancel their game subscription or decide not to purchase an online game instead of not having a meal....

    And in the end, why should sales figures matter to you anyway? You play a game because you like it, or it appeals to you, not because it sells well....
    at least that's what I hope...

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Tedsterz View Post
    When do sales even matter? as long as your having fun you don't care!
    Well those numbers will provide insight as in how the players are receiving MoP.
    In this case, the reaction of other players will be of direct influence to your gameplay.
    if the numbers go down, Blizzard will adjust things in the game to get them back and if they increase it will mean the direction they have chosen is the correct one.

    Also, what they spend on wow will depend on sales. So these numbers are quite important.

  3. #143
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    That's like asking how did Warcraft 3 compare to GW2

    Why is it? You are now comparing a release from 8 years ago to a current release. As I said back then the market was under a million players.

  4. #144
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Why is it? You are now comparing a release from 8 years ago to a current release. As I said back then the market was under a million players.
    When WoW was released in 2004, EQ2 had the largest MMO player base of about 525,000 subs. There was no 1 million sub MMOs in those days. Those 525,000 played EQ or Ultima or MUDs previously (a very niched market of old D&D style RPGers, that played with their figurine and dice collection nearby).

    MMOs are a small niched market. They share the same player base. He who plays WoW plays EQ2; EQ2 players play RIFT; and RIFT players play GW2, etc., etc..
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Im not arguing that it wasnt a success, im just saying it wasnt as successful as previous launches. In fact, many of the other expansions sold more the FIRST DAY than MoP did in its first week. Go figure.
    considering that Cataclysm wasn't that of a good expansion and with the launch of Diablo III I'm not blaming people to buying stuff in a more conservative way. ^^

  6. #146
    What you get out of wow is really the platform that the largest amount of people meet to participate in raid/pvp activities.

    Especially the raid part is big. Bigger than any other game of this kind with over 50k team per tier scoring boss kills in raids.

    Thats what worth paying for, although blizzard keeps undermining excactly that aspect of their game with changes that scew any sence of accomplishment or competition.
    (see 10vs25 being treated as one race, changes in local markets in far east, LFR tool, not simultaneous releases on new raiding content).

    I would never be a subscriber for more than 3 months if it wasn't for that, yet i respect the majority that does excactly that for a reason.

    As for the sales it seems that box sales are now close to 900k world wide.

    http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41203/Global/

    It doesn't matter to me though, no matter how it did or doing compared to previous expansions, since it looks as busy as ever around.
    What it does matter to me is that community keeps degrading seriously threatening to compromise my personal "bubble" of peace of mind.
    In the long derm this and the scewed raiding model would be the reasons to quit, since it seems we will avoid a tier similar to dragon soul in the near future (it was a time i was seriously thinking what the hell am i still playing this game for).
    Last edited by Archidamos; 2012-11-02 at 11:55 AM.

  7. #147
    isn't WoW dead isnce 2008 when Warhammer Online was released? or was it after Age of Conan, Rift, STO, SWTOR or GW2?
    We're seeing that kind of threads since then, and people like OP here, still amuse us with all "WoW is dying" bs.
    You try so hard to make people hate WoW, you want it dead from years, WTF is your problem?
    People love WoW and will be loving for years to come (hell, I don't even believe Titan will kill it), it won't be over 10m subs all the time, but it's obvious for people with some working brain.

  8. #148
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    When WoW was released in 2004, EQ2 had the largest MMO player base of about 525,000 subs. There was no 1 million sub MMOs in those days. Those 525,000 played EQ or Ultima or MUDs previously (a very niched market of old D&D style RPGers, that played with their figurine and dice collection nearby).

    MMOs are a small niched market. They share the same player base. He who plays WoW plays EQ2; EQ2 players play RIFT; and RIFT players play GW2, etc., etc..
    That was my point. He was comparing a release from when the market was small. To when there is a huge market for MMO.

    Then he wants to claim that comparing another MMO released a year after is like comparing a 10 year old game to a new release.......

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pencil View Post
    *Stops stopwatch* That's what.. About 17hrs and two minutes and the thread has already descended into the garbage game vs game debate.

    Great job folks, keep up that devolution!
    Very unexpected considering the OPs post... and reputation
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    considering that Cataclysm wasn't that of a good expansion and with the launch of Diablo III I'm not blaming people to buying stuff in a more conservative way. ^^
    Diablo 3 is a great game, people just had too hyped up expectations of it, and or they didnt know what they were getting themselves into. Diablo games have always been dungeon crawler type games, that is repetitive and all about the item hunt, and it does this perfectly. I play diablo 3 almost every day (albeit for very short play sessions) and i find decent gear each time.

    Cata was good at the beginning when the dungeons were not faceroll, and it became progressively worse as they had huge lulls between content patches, and also the content patches were not good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewor View Post
    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Cata was good at the beginning when the dungeons were not faceroll, and it became progressively worse as they had huge lulls between content patches, and also the content patches were not good.
    About the first thing I have ever seen Jaylock right that was not flamebait!

    This is very true and I will not count MoP as a success until we do not have 1 raid with 8 bosses for 9 months.

    If they can avoid that I think we will be all good!

    If 5.1 is out this month or early next and new raid in say Jan or Feb that is the sort of pace we are looking for.

  12. #152
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Cata was good at the beginning when the dungeons were not faceroll, and it became progressively worse as they had huge lulls between content patches, and also the content patches were not good.
    But people left when dungeons were too hard, so they had to change it.
    We can complain all we want but in the end they will listen to the entire community.
    And if easier dungeons will lead to a smaller decline than that's what they will do.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    When you listen to CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, and read "news" from websites like huffingtonpost, then you would definitely be one to say that about "my candidate of choice"
    Hmmm, at least they bring facts. Fox 'News' viewers were shown to know less about the world than people that watch no news at all. I had the pleasure of spending time with them in Alaska a few times.

    Don't get me wrong, they were down right hospitable and friendly; many could use them as an example. But when it came to the world they knew less than nothing and religiously believed facts that have been proven incorrect over and over. Their source for these facts was Fox News, which apparently is the holy gospel of news.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Do you ever have anything positive to say about WoW mang?
    It's because he's a Romney Supporter.

  15. #155
    the only people that im aware of that gave mists a bad review was kotaku and lets be honest nobody has respected kotaku for a LONG time i mean just look at what they did with the wiiu from e3 up to about 3 months ago it was all "my friend who knows a guy whos brothers with a guy in the industry says the wiiu is like an old 2004 computer man" or "the wiiu is horrible as soon as the 720 and ps4 comes out its gonna be left behind" now that its about to come out they say "OH MEH GERD THE WIIU WILL REVOLUTIONIZE RPGS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH" also when the 3ds came out all they did was bash it now the vitas out and despite the fact the vita is selling less then the psp did and is basically doa pretty much every day theres a "HEY GUISE HERES THIS AWESOME GAIMZ WE FOUNDS ON PSN FOAR VITA PLZ BUYZ PLZ"

    pretty much everyone else gave mist good reviews
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  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
    I'm still surprised Blizzard tries to pass off their "10 million" subscriber number as legit. The majority of those are Asian (Chinese) players that play for free. They've lost around half of their western subscriber base this expansion if I remember right (based in initial sales vs subscribers).

    There were as many people playing WoW in the west as there are GW2 and the likes at launch (although GW2 is bleeding at an incredibly fast rate, that game will be dead soon).

    You have to hand it to WoW though. Even with all of its ups and downs it'll still be going strong by the time Titan is released.
    Do Asian players pay less than we do? Yes. Want to know why? Netease gets a majority of the profit as they run the servers and the day to day business and only license the game from Blizzard. The point remains Blizzard still makes a profit from all players Asian or not and again as a publicly traded company ATVI is obligated by law to provide accurate information relevant to their shareholders including subscription numbers. Have an issue with it? Take it up with the SEC.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 12:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakto View Post
    This is the exact type of non-subtle comment by the OP which is designed as flamebait that he is known for.

    He doesn't play it himself, doesn't like it himself yet continues to creates threads like this with downright negative and primarily inaccurate statements disguised as fact.
    That describes half the posters on these forums. Most people have realized this is where those who are perm banned on the official forums go to spread their misery and hate.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because WoW is a fad game. It's about big numbers and flaunting it, at the boardroom and ingame.
    I don't think fad means what you think it does but then again you do like to play fast and loose with facts and reality.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
    that's laughable, even now a few months into the game I am still working on new gear items with better stats. Still have 6 slots to build on its not cosmetic at all. Eventually I will have the luxury of doing so.

    You obviously haven't played the game. Even then the customisation per character is amazing and I'm still looking for gear that will totally make me viable for dungeons/WvW/PvP

    we have already one major patch, and another turning up on the 15th of this month. New content, no cost... keep paying the $15 and tell me how the dailies are working out for you.

    What I'm basically saying is - subscription model of payment is not really worth the money considering what other game are offering for free. Don't get me wrong WoW was a great game but to keep paying money every month you should expect more. Times have changed. If WoW drops a content bomb then I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. quote me if you like.
    It isn't worth it to YOU. 10 million others disagree and those are the only people that matter.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's unusual to call a game that has managed to dominate its market segment for eight years a 'fad' exactly. And it's certainly not the only game on the planet where people like to see big numbers or where company board members like to see big sales.
    Honestly it isn't even worth it to engage Kevyne. His bitterness and resentment towards Wow makes intelligent conversation with him impossible.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    One thing is certain, they weren't very fast with the number this time around. I think they themselves aren't very pleased with the numbers.
    Please link us the press releases telling us sales numbers before the end of first day sales. You can't because it NEVER happened. These numbers have always been released at least one week after an expansion launches. But then again don't let silly things like facts get in the way of your agenda.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Primernova View Post
    9 out of 10 people/posters, that fall into this,"hates WoW" category are just very disapointed in the direction of the game and would like to see a return to the time of it being amazing.

    The hard cutoff of new players and growth was ToC, that trend is just getting worse and worse, but there is still no common consensus; just random noise and blame/excuses, being thrown around.

    WoW is like the golden goose, running around with it's head cut off and that's a pretty disturbing thing to watch.
    Yeah no. Name one mmo who has lost 25% of its subscribers and still managed to get some of them back.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    When a game culture is introduced into the main stream and vice-versa, it's a fad. Complete with Mr. T haircuts and Chuck Norris. Blizzard rides trends more than keeping to any storyline or lore (and the storyline reads more like a "Who shot J.R.?" tv plot, that's rewritten into a dream in another expansion...etc).

    Yes, a fad.
    Because Blizzard never incorporated pop culture in its games until recently. Oh wait...


    Look we get it. You hate wow. Just go away you have no business being here and spamming your idiocy.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thenamedosentfi View Post
    I agree, yeah sure maybe they sold less than last time but what other MMO can say they sold that many in a week? Very few or none imo.
    Actually the sales numbers for Mop are better than Cata given the fact when Cata launched there were already 12 million subscribers. Mop sold 2.7 million copies with 3 million less subscribers. Do the math.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    Well those numbers will provide insight as in how the players are receiving MoP.
    In this case, the reaction of other players will be of direct influence to your gameplay.
    if the numbers go down, Blizzard will adjust things in the game to get them back and if they increase it will mean the direction they have chosen is the correct one.

    Also, what they spend on wow will depend on sales. So these numbers are quite important.
    And yet other companies have managed to develop their mmos just fine thank you very much without having massive amounts of sales and subscribers. In the end this is Blizzard's game and Blizzard's vision and as much as they are a company they are also artists who aren't necessarily going to trash their vision for a quick buck. The numbers only matter to shareholders and potential investors and that is who Blizzard is communicating with when they release information like this.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    When WoW was released in 2004, EQ2 had the largest MMO player base of about 525,000 subs. There was no 1 million sub MMOs in those days. Those 525,000 played EQ or Ultima or MUDs previously (a very niched market of old D&D style RPGers, that played with their figurine and dice collection nearby).

    MMOs are a small niched market. They share the same player base. He who plays WoW plays EQ2; EQ2 players play RIFT; and RIFT players play GW2, etc., etc..

    Oh good lord. I'm just going to take the hit for this. You are a fucking idiot.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But people left when dungeons were too hard, so they had to change it.
    We can complain all we want but in the end they will listen to the entire community.
    And if easier dungeons will lead to a smaller decline than that's what they will do.
    If they listened to the community LFR would be gone along with cross realm zones, LFD, pet battles and numerous other things. Again yes Blizzard is a company but their vision for the game matters more than appeasing the impossible to please customers.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2012-11-02 at 08:20 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Actually the sales numbers for Mop are better than Cata given the fact when Cata launched there were already 12 million subscribers. Mop sold 2.7 million copies with 3 million less subscribers. Do the math.[COLOR="red"]
    Even if your logic was sound (which it isnt) lets do a little math shall we:

    3.3 million / 12 million = gives us the % of subscribed players who purchased the expansion

    = 27.5% bought the expansion in the first 24 HOURS.

    2.7 million / 10 million = gives us the % of subscribed players who purchased the expansion

    = 27% bought the expansion after 1 WEEK.


    Yeah, i think cata sold more on a percent basis than MoP did, considering they sold more the first 24 hours than MoP did in its first week. Nice try though.
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    And where did these magical percentages come from? I didn't realise someone's ass also doubled as a calculator.
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  18. #158
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    If they listened to the community LFR would be gone along with cross realm zones, LFD, pet battles and numerous other things. Again yes Blizzard is a company but their vision for the game matters more than appeasing the impossible to please customers.
    They DO listen to the community.
    And when they see that over 2 million people are using LFR, they leave it in.
    When almost everyone uses LFD, they leave it in.

    There's a difference between 'listening to the community' and 'listening to a little bunch of whiners'.

  19. #159
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    The problem with your math, Jaylock, is that it ignores the old saying about lies and statistics.

    You're throwing around numbers without regard to context. Cata was released for Christmas, MoP wasn't. Furthermore, around the world the current economy is uncertain and as money has tightened up people have cut back on things like games. Simple sales statistics won't tell us if a given player hasn't purchased a copy of MoP because they don't like it or because they're tight on money.

    Viewed another way, we could say that response to MoP has been positive -- sales have good despite a poor economy and without the pork chop of Christmas gift buying hung around its neck.

  20. #160
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    Well, peeps that got burned with Cata will be a bit cautious this time around, so i wouldn't expect jump sale-records.

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