Is monk dps really this bad?

[morbidone]

I was looking at raidbot today and I noticed something I had not noticed before.

Initially I thought that raid dps for monk was about middle of the road, but then I looked at it some more and I noticed something troubling. Almost all the top dps specs above WW were different classes. So we are the 10th spec, but all the specs above us are generally from different classes.

No class consistently ranks shittier than Monks in raids!

Which actually means that WW is the worst DPS spec out there!


Why do I always get my ass kicked by the Character Select Screen Boss?! WHY?!?
Went from a lolemental shaman in cata to a gimp ass neutered rogue!


Ok, someone tell me I am wrong, so I can sleep better tonight.
Tell me I didn't fuck up, and get the lame horse yet again!

[Yohassakura]

From what I can see, shaman are doing worse, and they're not far behind ret pallys on average, but maximum they are better than pallys.

Become a better than average player, and then there's no need to qq.

You also have to look at what gear each person has, and if they're lucky with procs or not... As you can't put the data into actual context, just the top 100~ parses or whatever, the data itself doesn't really say all that much. It doesn't highlight anomalies at either end of the spectrum.

[Archimedic]

Don't forget that people have had less time to practice the class. Using raidbots to compare yes in 10 man it shows them doing poorly but for 25 man they are doing fine, the reason most likely being in 10 mans more monks are spending more time doing none dps activities (such as using more chi helping out healers) rather than them being disadvantaged vs the 25 man in any way from buffs or fight mechanics.

So in answer, give it time for people to get gear and practice a new class before giving up on the class. Their dps isn't bad. No it isn't number 1 but as the 25 man chart on raidbots shows they have potential to be quite competitive.

And with the moderate talent/mechanic improvements in the patch notes that minor difference could easily be eliminated.

[morbidone]

Defeating the character select screen boss is far more important than skill level! If the class aint got the capability, then it doesn't matter how much MAD SKILL you have!

[Spotnick]

Well, 2 things.. new class, learning curve, balance issues, and secondly, monks bring nothing to the table for dps, so there isn't really any reason to bring a dps monk in a 10 man.

However from my own personal experience, I do more dps on my monk than I was doing on my paladin, even though my main spec is healer, I kind of dig the dps one and don't regret swapping last week.

[morbidone]

Meh I find the whole "no reason to bring xyz" comments to be without any real substance. Only insanely hardcore guilds actually exclude classes due to lack of dps/raid abilities. People who say their raid spot depends on their dps are usually just lying.

[dar0]

not to be rude, but are you keeping 3 stacks with tiger palm and using that "mortal strike"-thingy on CD? should be doing quite decent dps. i just specced from brewmaster to WW and don't know all the names of the abilities yet, but i can still put out enough dps too see my name on top 6 in LFRs. and i don't even have 470 ilvl yet... gl with your monk

[Feviir]

Monk single target damage is actually really strong, problem is that is all we have. The reason you won't see us topping raidbot or wol rankings is because we have no real form of cleave or dot so having a second DPS target in an encounter gives us no increase in damage as it does for most other classes and over half of Vaults has more than 1 main dps target per encounter.

[Rushro]

I did 70k on normal spirit kings today in tanking reforged/gemmed/enchanted. Shame to say I did better some main spec dps players. Mind you I don't know if 70k is really all that good seeing how I'm taking a more casual style this expansion.

[Araya]

I'm generally in the top 10. We tend to do better the longer the fight is since we don't have a lot in terms of CD's. Also depends on if you can use FoF or not. Cleave fights we will almost always lose since we lack a real cleave.

[Raidenwins]

As others have said if you play well then you will do just fine. Went 4/6 MSV the other night (I know people are gonna troll that it's not 6/6h idc), and I was top dps in all fights as WW, even tho Brewmaster is my main and I barely ever DPS.

[Affectionate]

You also have to look at the % spread, we're 4% behind the top dps on raid bots, and its pretty clear so far that ranged has a bit of an advantage.

Either way, 4% is a very small spread (98.7k vs 93.9k on raid bots) and player skill on either side of that could very easily close that gap.

[herpecin]

I did 70k on normal spirit kings today in tanking reforged/gemmed/enchanted. Shame to say I did better some main spec dps players. Mind you I don't know if 70k is really all that good seeing how I'm taking a more casual style this expansion.

monk tank gear = monk DPS gear.

[Affectionate]

monk tank gear = monk DPS gear.

While very true, the stat weights are a lil off between the two.

That being said, Ive given many of our 'main spec dps' guys a run in my 'tank gear' and it gives me endless joy to poke fun at them because of it

[Rushro]

monk tank gear = monk DPS gear.

monk dps uses 15% expertise?

[morbidone]

monk dps uses 15% expertise?

No, but neither do tanks. That was just bad info from our R&D team.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 10:20 AM ----------

If you look at the heroic fights the WW are actually scoring much better, towards the middle class wise.

Maybe there is a learning curve issue.

[Sumatran]

I also just did a pug MSV last sunday and went 4/6 (not bad for the entire pug never even seeing MSV on normal) and as a WW dps (brewmaster is main spec) and was constantly top dps as well, with ~58k dps on the 4 bosses. My ilvl is only 470.

I think its more learning curve than anything.

Also I recommend downloading http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/ovale until you get used to the rotation/ability priority.

[gynshon]

While very true, the stat weights are a lil off between the two.

That being said, Ive given many of our 'main spec dps' guys a run in my 'tank gear' and it gives me endless joy to poke fun at them because of it

Incorrect. The stat weights are the same. Agi > Hit/Exp 7.5% > Haste > Crit > Mastery Do that on both your BM spec, and WW spec and you will have no issues. Depending on your healers, you might have to throw on a Stam trinket for Will, but other than that you should be fine.

[Deleted]

Usually "I am in a good spot in my raid and in LFR, so monk is fine" is not really viable when it comes to comparision between classes. So are overall spec scores, e.g. fire mage is in HC not that high because mostly the mages are on nova duty on Will, which drops their overall score extremely, despite beeing an amazingly strong DPS spec / class right now.

On single target damage fights monks are OK. Probably a bit low compared to some other classes, especially when more gear gets available and GCD capping becomes an issue where it's starting to hurt the dps.
The problem are cleave / multidot fights. While I agree that not every class should be able to shine in everything, the difference between some classes / specs that have a good cleave and the classes / specs that don't is just too big. So either: Give everyone an ability to increase the damage if multiple targets are available (not speaking of 4+ for aoe'ing), or just nerf cleaves and multidots across all specs, or just don't make so many cleave / multidot encounter.
That said: Overall monks are in need of a slight buff, though a good cleave would help out much more, because on those fights the targetted 5% difference by Blizz are nowhere reality, it's more about 50% difference.

[Deleted]

I push 71k dps with my pvp geared monk on spiritbinder. generally topping fights unless heroic geared derps in raids. - 475 avg ilvl.