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  1. #1

    Attacked for Raid Leading in Raid Finder.

    I just got out of the second half of MGV raid finder where I had asked the raid leader in a private message for 'assist' so i could use raid warnings to call things out to help the raid. I figured it benefits new players, players who don't know what to do, and tunnel-visioners.

    Despite this, people still died to not stacking on Spirit Kings, falling on Elegon and not controlling adds or dancing on Will of the Emperor.

    On top of this I had one person who I shall not name verbally assaulting me (without using any language that would be reportable, not that I'd want to anyway) BECAUSE I was calling things out for people, just in case they weren't aware of it themselves.
    To clarify, I did not call people bad or name anyone specifically for doing something wrong. All of my information was correct for Raid Finder, I never used bad language and I did not use the raid warnings to talk about other things or grand stand, or link meters or anything like that., I just announced things like "Kite and Kill shadows" on Spirit Kings or "Slow, Stun, Kite and Kill Rages" on Will.

    We had a conversation in the raid about why it was happening, and the person complaining gave very poor reasoning for his point of view, most of which would work in an ideal world, but just doesn't work in the realities of the online anonymous no punishment world of Raid Finder.

    So my questions to any/all of you is:
    Have any of you seen anything like this happen before, and what did you do about it? (the complaining)
    Is it a problem for you, and if so, why? (the raid announcing)


    EDIT: Just to be clear, this was a random player who was saying 'no one should be calling things out for the benefit of the group', not the raid leader as he agreed with me doing it.
    I'm just in a stupefied awe that anyone could possibly have an issue with someone helping others out in a team based environment..

    EDIT2: I was calling things out in real time whilst still doing more than my fair share of the healing, so it wasnt slowing anyone down as i only ever said anything before a fight if they needed to know something for the pull, eg spirit kings.
    Last edited by Qprahwndfury; 2012-11-02 at 05:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Qprahwndfury View Post
    Have any of you seen anything like this happen before, and what did you do about it? (the complaining)
    Is it a problem for you, and if so, why? (the raid announcing)
    Yes, I see this everyday. What do I do about it? Ignore it, stop leading and just go with the flow. If it turns out to be absolutely ridiculous, then leave. I'd rather have a 30 minute debuff than to go through pain and depressing hours of trying to clear MGV with noobs.

    Problem for me? Not at all, since this has been happening since the release of LFR in Cataclysm, I'm really used to it.

    **Did not see the raid announcing in brackets**

    It is no problem for me at all to have people raid announcing, it's actually for the best. It helps bring the raid on a better path to have numerous raid leaders.
    Last edited by Biohazard; 2012-11-02 at 05:36 AM.

  3. #3
    I use the ignore function.

  4. #4
    LFR nowadays is all about shutting up and getting out of there as fast as possible.

    The longer people talk, the more slurs get tossed around and the more the blame game gets in full swing.

    Had 2 tanks trying to tank the same mob on Will in LFR yesterday and they couldn't figure out why the other one was running around stomping people. I kid you not they blamed the healers for not keeping people up and the dps for dying to avoidable 300,000+ hits.

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I try and break things down real easy BEFORE going into each fight... for Will, I basically just say in raid chat:

    "Alright, if we wipe, stick with the group. The only way to clear this is through trying until all the people get it. Odds are you will NOT just "happen into a group" that does it right the first try. IN addition, explaining the fight now saves a lot more time than facepulling it and wiping."

    Then I break it down, real simple:

    "Adds will spawn. When RAGE spawns, players will get a red beam attached to them. If you get this beam, RUN. Do not stand there expecting the healers to heal you through it."

    "When the COURAGE add spawns, ALL DPS need to switch over and kill it ASAP."

    "The main bosses will cast something called DEVASTATING COMBO when their mana bar reaches full. Melee DPS, if you don't know what this is already, run away from the boss. Tanks need to dodge this."

    No one's ever contended my "explanation" in the past, and it seems to work fairly well... after a wipe or two, and some reminders, people usually seem to get the hang of it.

    The only problem I really see with the fight is melee DPS focusing too heavily on the adds, especially during the burn phase. This usually leads to a wipe due to healer stress. That being said, I think it would be quite beneficial for them to change devastating combo's "warning" from the air effect to a ground one, at least for LFR difficulty.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2012-11-02 at 05:45 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #6
    Keyboard Turner
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    I just find raid warnings obnoxious. I wouldn't have cried about it, but they are annoying. Anyone bad enough to need raid warnings probably won't know what kiting, etc is, so I doubt it helps much. I have DBM spamming enough crap on my screen, I don't need anymore thanks.

  7. #7
    Lol, I see people arguing in raid finder about anything and everything you could imagine.
    I basically don't pay attention to the idiots, and try keep an eye anything important popping up in raid chat.

    If it was spammy I can see how it might be annoying though.
    You could do a raid warning and tell them to select Yes if that want you to do callouts and No if they don't.
    Go with whichever gets the most votes.

  8. #8
    I had a similar situation and was cussed out with words to the effect of If you're so great, why aren't you a tank?

    When it comes to LFR, you have to expect a certain degree of nonsense and drooling. If you can't barely scrape by with five players awake and two drunk healers, drop group and re-queue.

  9. #9
    LFR isn't the place to be a Raid Leader. Most will ignore commands (I do, I know what to do already, let me do it), or contradict them just because they can. People that don't know the fights, will learn them or pay the repair bills later.

    Normal pre-made raids need a leader. LFD and LFR doesn't. One is appointed by the system because that's how it is designed. But it isn't needed and in most cases not wanted...

  10. #10
    I ignore the /raid chat in LFR. It's not worth investing the effort to raid lead in LFR. No one reads it anyway and the people who do pay attention to it probably didn't need to anyway. It's like trying to heard Seagulls. It's just not going to happen.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The only problem I really see with the fight is melee DPS focusing too heavily on the adds...
    More than half of the LFR runs I have done so far, the raid leader has said melee on adds ranged on boss. Whether I agree or not, I try and be a team player and go with the flow. Really most of my wipes on Will so far have been because of too many adds up, tanks tanking the bosses too close together, or melee trying to dance but failing and dieing before heals get to them. I honestly have not yet seen a fail from healer mana yet, and I have seen some long ones with half the people dead. Usually though when too many dps die, too many adds running around, healers start to die, and then the wipe.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrodel View Post
    LFR isn't the place to be a Raid Leader. Most will ignore commands (I do, I know what to do already, let me do it), or contradict them just because they can. People that don't know the fights, will learn them or pay the repair bills later.

    Normal pre-made raids need a leader. LFD and LFR doesn't. One is appointed by the system because that's how it is designed. But it isn't needed and in most cases not wanted...

    Waiting for idiots and trolls to learn the mechanics while MY repair bill goes up just because no one wants me to explain to get the hell off the floor during elegon is not acceptable and neither is contradicting explanations of fights just because you want to be a free little butterfly who listens to no man. You have got to live in some sick little world where spending 6 hours doing faceroll bosses is enjoyable.
    Brooding.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    After 5 fail LFRs as "just another dps", I decided to que up as tank and raid lead. We one shot EVERYTHING. Now, ima raid lead all the LFRs.
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    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  14. #14
    Warchief theWocky's Avatar
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    There are a lot of good people that play MMO's, but from my experience, (sucks thumb), at least 50% of the people I've met in game are hardly what I would call having social skills or patience of any kind. This is the point of guilds - to weed out the socially retarded. Even still, they are still very prominent in guilds as they seem to merely behave to get their "stuff". Those MMO stereotype jokes are there for a reason - they're based on real examples.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    After 5 fail LFRs as "just another dps", I decided to que up as tank and raid lead. We one shot EVERYTHING. Now, ima raid lead all the LFRs.
    I've been in 2 that have only had 1 wipe so far, but otherwise very smooth. I have been in some that wiped repeatedly. I think it has more to do with the luck of the draw and the quality of the players you get thrown in with as opposed to any 1 player.

  16. #16
    Doing LFR is like joining a barbarian horde. They aren't well educated or very efficient, but they loosely move together as a big writhing mass to get things accomplished.

    Barbarians don't care about your nice words. They respect power and ability. Every time i've done LFR, I was main tanking it and assigned raid lead. I tell them what to do, they do it. Always worked out nicely.

    Don't try to stop and explain fights to people, just give them to relavent info as it's needed.

    Second half of LFR these are the only lines you ever need to say:
    Stack on Tank
    Kill Orbs
    Get off platform
    Kill adds first

    Those 4 sentences are all you ever need to utter in a raid warning and you will win every time. Or at least I have, but i'm a tank and I carry raids frequently. Everything else related to the boss fights is either completely irrelevant or obvious enough when it happens even the most inexperienced noob can react to. Any other responsibilities I take care of personally.

    Barbarians respect tanks bossing them around a lot more than DPS.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Qprahwndfury View Post
    We had a conversation in the raid


    There are just so many people that either have no clue or wont grasp it in the time they spent there.
    In addition the the fights are tuned to "the difficulties of a pug group" aka half of the raid slacking.
    Raid leading is nice for the occasional new guy that pays attention but sadly most players in LFR have no interest in playing at a decent level.

  18. #18
    About 15 to 20 guildies go in together on the same night every week. We knock out SHa then head in there or the other way around. This way no matter who we are grouped with it is a quick and easy run. This will slow down a bit some in coming weeks I am sure but by then enough ppl will know fights so it wont matter.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  19. #19
    To the OP:
    I think this is relevant to your situation

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by theWocky View Post
    There are a lot of good people that play MMO's, but from my experience, (sucks thumb), at least 50% of the people I've met in game are hardly what I would call having social skills or patience of any kind. This is the point of guilds - to weed out the socially retarded. Even still, they are still very prominent in guilds as they seem to merely behave to get their "stuff". Those MMO stereotype jokes are there for a reason - they're based on real examples.
    There certainly are tons of ppl that would rather wipe 4 or 5 times rather then spend 2 minutes explaining what not to do, like falling to your death on elegon.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

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