1. #1

    Calculate haste breakpoints

    Hi

    How do you calculate the amount of haste you need for extra ticks on your spells? At 80 and 90..

  2. #2
    Spell Duration / ( Base Tick Time / ( 1 + Haste % in decimal form)) = Total Number of Ticks Rounding Up

    The difference between levels is the amount of haste rating you need to get 1% haste.

    LEVEL: Haste Rating per 1%
    60: 10.00000
    70: 15.76923
    80: 32.78999
    85: 128.05716
    90: 425.xxxxxx

    Example:
    Glyphed Combustion: last 20 seconds, ticks every second

    20 / (1 / 1.125) = 22.5 -> 23 ticks of Combustion

    So, you need 12.5% haste, but keep in mind that it is multiplicative, not additive. So if you have 5% raid buff haste you would need: 7.142857% haste from gear because 1.05*1.07142857=1.125

    You DO NOT need 7.5% haste. Thinking: 1.05+1.075 = 1.125 IS WRONG!

    For simplicity, there's a really good table to look at:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZmFYa0E#gid=39
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-11-02 at 09:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    I just want to tell to every one who want to check Haste cap for NT and LV to make a graph (excel, open office, ...) to see how DPS increase with haste.

    you will see:
    NT's dps increase linearly with haste (no cap) because the global duration change too with haste
    LV's dps change like a saw because the explosion part is 50% of the global damage. So the total duration change have a bigger impact than any additional tick. The haste cap for Living bomb is just before additional tick (minimal duration), not just after (maximal duration).
    The answers is 42
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    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  4. #4
    I wish I knew who to credit for this spreadsheet:

    For level 90 Mages

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    I wish I knew who to credit for this spreadsheet:

    For level 90 Mages
    So for me: goblin - i would need 2588 rating, unbuffed for 1 more tick on bombs? I think this excel is abit hard to read.

  6. #6
    I glanced at the spreadsheet and I noticed something.
    When it comes to non-goblins who don't use Frost Armor:

    With Raid Haste and Bloodlust...
    You need 2657 haste for a 15-tick combustion unglyphed.
    You need 3457 haste for a 30-tick combustion glyphed.

    In this case, it appears we would go for the 2657 breakpoint, drop glyph of combustion, gain crit, and gain a different glyph.
    The next breakpoint is 5k haste.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Muliercula View Post
    So for me: goblin - i would need 2588 rating, unbuffed for 1 more tick on bombs? I think this excel is abit hard to read.
    2605 gets you the 23rd glyphed combustion tick so that's your minimum right now. 3056 is the common haste breakpoint you'll hear for non-Goblin Mages; 2605 is the Goblin equivalent.

    I agree that it's difficult to read the chart. Two tips:

    -it lists Living Bomb, Pyroblast, Combustion, Glyphed Combustion, and Nether Tempest in separate sections which are labeled in a Violet color.

    -all you really need to know are the relevant numbers for Living Bomb and Glyphed Combustion in the Goblin section. Also Nether Tempest if you use it.


    For your Goblin -

    Living Bomb 2588 (5 ticks)
    Combustion: 2605 (23 ticks) 4565 (24 ticks). In the future the 25th, 26th, 27th etc. will be relevant on the chart.
    Nether Tempest 2605 (14 ticks) 5930 (15 ticks)

  8. #8
    Just found this!

    totemspot.com/images/hastebreakpointcards/mage.jpg

    Thanks Totemspot!

    My ilvl now is 481 and Im running with haste of ~2600. However, after looking at this now, going to 3056 seems to be optimal as it's an extra tick on glyphed Combustion and on LB/NT. With reforging etc, I will lost only 0.47% crit while gaining an extra tick on my LB and Combustion, that is a huge DPS boost for such a little trade off in crit, especially considering I am at 28.5% crit buffed and without the passive crit multiplier for PB, FB and Scorch.

    I think for Mages between 475-480 gear this is the breakpoint to aim for.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by azzgunther View Post
    2605 gets you the 23rd glyphed combustion tick so that's your minimum right now. 3056 is the common haste breakpoint you'll hear for non-Goblin Mages; 2605 is the Goblin equivalent.

    I agree that it's difficult to read the chart. Two tips:

    -it lists Living Bomb, Pyroblast, Combustion, Glyphed Combustion, and Nether Tempest in separate sections which are labeled in a Violet color.

    -all you really need to know are the relevant numbers for Living Bomb and Glyphed Combustion in the Goblin section. Also Nether Tempest if you use it.


    For your Goblin -

    Living Bomb 2588 (5 ticks)
    Combustion: 2605 (23 ticks) 4565 (24 ticks). In the future the 25th, 26th, 27th etc. will be relevant on the chart.
    Nether Tempest 2605 (14 ticks) 5930 (15 ticks)
    Correct if I am wrong but...
    Iif 3rd poster in this thread did math right, mage does NOT want to get extra tick on LB. Which would make it impossible to reach both goals:
    1) Stay just under 2588 to get more damage out of LB
    2) Go over 2605 to get extra tick of Combustion(Glyphed)/NT
    Which of these has bigger effect on dps?

  10. #10
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pspsully View Post
    Just found this!

    totemspot.com/images/hastebreakpointcards/mage.jpg

    Thanks Totemspot!

    My ilvl now is 481 and Im running with haste of ~2600. However, after looking at this now, going to 3056 seems to be optimal as it's an extra tick on glyphed Combustion and on LB/NT. With reforging etc, I will lost only 0.47% crit while gaining an extra tick on my LB and Combustion, that is a huge DPS boost for such a little trade off in crit, especially considering I am at 28.5% crit buffed and without the passive crit multiplier for PB, FB and Scorch.

    I think for Mages between 475-480 gear this is the breakpoint to aim for.
    why is 3056 the magic number? i thought the goal was to have 7.15% haste, and when combined with the 5% haste from raid buffs it would total up to 12.5%. currently my troll mage has 3039 rating with 7.15% haste. 1.0715*1.05=1.125075 ~ 12.51% haste. so why 3056 and not 3039 or whatever?

  11. #11
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
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    As a non-goblin, I'd personally go for 7.47% Haste for extra Combustion tick or rather 3056 rating. We have a shaman in the group so it will fit perfectly in and let me reforge from haste to crit. I don't think going for an extra LB tick will improve your DPS with gear 470-485 for example. You'd like to go for more crit. I was really looking forward for such a thread. Thanks for your explanations guys!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    why is 3056 the magic number? i thought the goal was to have 7.15% haste, and when combined with the 5% haste from raid buffs it would total up to 12.5%. currently my troll mage has 3039 rating with 7.15% haste. 1.0715*1.05=1.125075 ~ 12.51% haste. so why 3056 and not 3039 or whatever?
    I actually don't know why it's 3056. I just read it off the table. I assumed it was because of:
    LEVEL: Haste Rating per 1%
    60: 10.00000
    70: 15.76923
    80: 32.78999
    85: 128.05716
    90: 425.xxxxxx

    And I didn't know the exact decimal numbers behind 425. If you are claiming that 3039 is giving you 12.5% haste with the raid buff, test it out and let us know!
    Get a guildy boomking/SP/ele shaman to sit in your party. Cast Nether Tempest on a target dummy and do not refresh it. Count if it gives you 13 or 14 ticks.

  13. #13
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    I actually don't know why it's 3056. I just read it off the table. I assumed it was because of:
    LEVEL: Haste Rating per 1%
    60: 10.00000
    70: 15.76923
    80: 32.78999
    85: 128.05716
    90: 425.xxxxxx

    And I didn't know the exact decimal numbers behind 425. If you are claiming that 3039 is giving you 12.5% haste with the raid buff, test it out and let us know!
    Get a guildy boomking/SP/ele shaman to sit in your party. Cast Nether Tempest on a target dummy and do not refresh it. Count if it gives you 13 or 14 ticks.
    stuck at work but i will test it when i get home and provide some logs. but from my armory (in sig) you can see the haste rating at 3039 and its 7.15%

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    stuck at work but i will test it when i get home and provide some logs. but from my armory (in sig) you can see the haste rating at 3039 and its 7.15%
    Well it's possible you're at 7.146 and the game rounded to 7.15 on your sheet, but ya, just let us know when you test it.

  15. #15
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Well it's possible you're at 7.146 and the game rounded to 7.15 on your sheet, but ya, just let us know when you test it.


    my char sheet... still the 3039 haste but with raid buffs. being at 12.51% would be enough to put me on the 14th tick side if i recall correctly. home in 2 hours to test.

  16. #16
    Checked bit, and it looks current version of Simcraft does not refresh LB correctly early between ticks (does not explode bomb when refreshed between last ticks).
    http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...detail?id=1297
    Would not be surprised if staying under LB tick is more important than extra combustion tick but it is to be seen. Or possible stacking haste to get well over caps to again shorten LB dot time (4 or 5k haste etc).
    Edit: haste stacking from LB's point of view does not work, next tick is at 13.1k haste so far to far.
    Last edited by sahtila; 2012-11-06 at 10:00 AM.

  17. #17
    @elpadrino: What were the results? I'm curious to know!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    why is 3056 the magic number? i thought the goal was to have 7.15% haste, and when combined with the 5% haste from raid buffs it would total up to 12.5%. currently my troll mage has 3039 rating with 7.15% haste. 1.0715*1.05=1.125075 ~ 12.51% haste. so why 3056 and not 3039 or whatever?
    I explained it two posts above this. 3056 gets a non-Goblin a 23rd tick of glyphed Combustion.

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