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  1. #41
    Immortal Notarget's Avatar
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    Assuming we're talking about an above-average, organized guild, Challenge dungeons are mathematically the fastest path to the VP cap. Of course the difficulty isn't comparable between LFR and Challenge Modes, but a serious raiding guild can go into an organized five-player setting and get to the VP cap faster, as opposed to gambling with a random LFR queue or facerolling LFR with a full guild clear.

    You don't even have to be anywhere near a record-breaking time to be getting more VP/minute than in LFR.
    Only issue here is we really don't have many, if any, tanks willing or able to run these. We have like 2 tanks and maybe 2 off-spec ones in a 25 man guild so running Challenge modes for VP isn't as "easy" as they make it out to be (for VP).

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reemi View Post
    Funny...

    "Blizzard made 10 and 25s share a lockout because 25 man guilds were "forced" into running the lower skilled 10s for extra gear each week."

    But, we are not forced to do our daily quests.
    You are right, we aren't. I don't do them, and I'm doing just fine this expansion.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by greyghost View Post
    The moment some players realized that others potentially less "skilled" than themselves are able to get epic gear, albeit less powerful than what they were getting, they whined.

    They whined about the 20-man raids in Vanilla.

    They whined when Badge gear was introduced in Burning Crusade.

    They whined when 10-man variant raids with less powerful loot were introduced in WotLK.

    Until less than 5% of the player population are allowed to get epic gear again, they will always whine.
    the problem is not that everybody gets epic gear, bu because of this, epic gear now lost its value...in place of epic gear now we have item levels and a constant grind for higher item levels and lot of gear resets. Also the way stats work now upgrades means less and less important..let me explain. In vanilla for example a piece of gear has 10 stamina, now if you find a piece of gear with 11 stamina thats 10% increased...thats why there was a big difference between someone with epics and someone with blues...

    now someone with 8 ilvl more is not in any way that much difference than it used to be. And this is happening because everyone must have purple color gear. And this is a truth and I can understand it even if I didn't raid much in vanilla and never did something more than molten core, and that at the end of vanilla...but I can understand now that the difference between a lfr player and a normal raid + 1-3 heroic boss is minimal.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  4. #44
    Funny how a bug can ruin a whole arena season.... took you long enough to figure out something so clear.

  5. #45
    I really don't get the issue with LFR people have... we queue as a guild for LFR every tuesday prior to our raid time, clear it in 45 mins. If it's required by "guilds" to run it.. why don't they simply run it as a guild and stop whining about the other people in it.

    In fact we enjoy LFR, having fun on mumble, even though we have 4 tanks and 8 healers in the group since both raid groups are combined for that.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Haha... I want to see a Heroic, Elite item on asian servers upgraded two times with valor... this would be close to 540 ilvl for T14. >_>
    Quote Originally Posted by Korru View Post
    I'm saving my points for BiS gear.

    Valor upgrades are only possible on items you purchase using valor points aka epic items you buy from the reputation vendors. Dungeon, LFR and N/H raid items are not upgradable via VPs.
    ,

    Someone who has full access to the vendors who tried so can correct me if I'm wrong...

  7. #47
    Pretty sure that's not accurate, ZenX. It's been pretty clear the upgrade system can be used on raid gear, as in gear that drops in raid. The original description was that they're going away from players buying the armor and back towards getting your gear from the dungeons and valor will be used to strengthen that gear.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 03:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    And this is happening because everyone must have purple color gear. And this is a truth and I can understand it even if I didn't raid much in vanilla and never did something more than molten core, and that at the end of vanilla...but I can understand now that the difference between a lfr player and a normal raid + 1-3 heroic boss is minimal.
    I kind of wonder if they will slooowly turn back towards the old system. Heroics will drop blue quality gear and justice points can upgrade that ilvl. Raids will drop epics (including LFR) and valor will upgrade epics. Gear won't be purchased from vendors, but found via dungeons, drops, and crafting.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk Evela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenX View Post

    Valor upgrades are only possible on items you purchase using valor points aka epic items you buy from the reputation vendors. Dungeon, LFR and N/H raid items are not upgradable via VPs.
    ,

    Someone who has full access to the vendors who tried so can correct me if I'm wrong...
    Can anyone confirm/deny this?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I kind of wonder if they will slooowly turn back towards the old system. Heroics will drop blue quality gear and justice points can upgrade that ilvl. Raids will drop epics (including LFR) and valor will upgrade epics. Gear won't be purchased from vendors, but found via dungeons, drops, and crafting.
    That is what they are working toward, I believe. For most of beta, there was not any gear purchased with valor. It was only going to be this upgrade system. The actual valor gear was put in at the last minute, presumably because the upgrade system was not ready and because having no valor gear at all would be too much of a shock to players, who had gotten used to the idea that the Magic Armor Vendor was their primary source of gear.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2012-11-02 at 04:12 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  10. #50
    If we do remove valor gear entirely, I would love to see faction rep be daily quest only and yield crafting patterns, pets, mounts, consumable/on use items, and....wait for it.....Transmog sets applicable to the faction.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  11. #51
    "buhu i have to farm more stuff". Shut up and enjoy the expansion! Try not to ruin it like you did with cata you babies.

  12. #52
    High Overlord Blaschnack's Avatar
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    A few indirect spells will no longer trigger the Spirit Kings’ shields on Heroic Difficulty.
    Anyone knows what this includes? A little bit more specific info would be nice here, but I suppose it's better than nothing ^^

  13. #53
    I just hope it doesn't wipe out gems, enchants, leg armors, etc when you upgrade a piece with valor.

  14. #54
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post
    Only issue here is we really don't have many, if any, tanks willing or able to run these. We have like 2 tanks and maybe 2 off-spec ones in a 25 man guild so running Challenge modes for VP isn't as "easy" as they make it out to be (for VP).
    That's an observation that relates more directly to your guild than Blizzard's comment though isn't it?
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  15. #55
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Wow, that new item upgrading system really is stupid as fuck. I want less gear grinding for PvP items, not more.

    The sooner everybody is decked out the better. Hell deliver it in mail on patchday idgaf.

  16. #56
    Stupid question... whats the chances to be able to upg my legendary as a caster ?:PWould be cool to see those months wasted in firelands actualy worth it )

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    That's an observation that relates more directly to your guild than Blizzard's comment though isn't it?
    They all come down to opinions based on point of view. LFR is just as "optional" now as it was back in DS. Players understand what normal modes are tuned for, at the same time we know not everyone as in the past has the skill to do such as the hard core heroic progression guilds. This time around the CMs are placing the blame on the players for not having enough skill and telling them to bash their head against the wall and acting as if the gear from LFR wont be of help to them at all.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mada View Post
    Stupid question... whats the chances to be able to upg my legendary as a caster ?:PWould be cool to see those months wasted in firelands actualy worth it )
    Very doubtful you will be able to use valor on old items, and even if you were, it would only bump it up 8 ilvls.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivimord View Post
    I don't know if I'm really a big fan of the gear upgrade system... 1500 valor per item? 1000 valor per week, 16 upgradeable item slots... that's 24 weeks, just to fully upgrade one set of gear.

    Half a year to upgrade all of your stuff, assuming your gear is static and doesn't change. Ouch?
    ...
    Or am I missing the glory of the system?
    The glory of the system is that you can patch up the holes in your gearing if you are an actual raider and it gives you something to spend points on if you are a random chodder that doesn't get to do real raiding.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    They all come down to opinions based on point of view. LFR is just as "optional" now as it was back in DS. Players understand what normal modes are tuned for, at the same time we know not everyone as in the past has the skill to do such as the hard core heroic progression guilds. This time around the CMs are placing the blame on the players for not having enough skill and telling them to bash their head against the wall and acting as if the gear from LFR wont be of help to them at all.
    You did not read anything the CM said and are totally mistating him.

    Heroic progression guilds will run LFR as a group, they will face roll it in 20 minutes and they will only have to do it the first few weeks. Heroic progression guilds ENJOY pushing progression and finding any way possible to get an advantage. Part of the challenge is doing anything necessary to get that edge, like changing professions or even characters weekly etc.

    What the dev said is that normal guilds, doing normal mode could get an advantage from doing LFR, but that it isn´t something that is needed. If you are doing normal mode raids, having 1 or 2 pieces from LFR will not help you that much... executing the fight correctly in blue gear is all that is needed. Any GM who ´demands´ that players run LFR to gear up for doing normal modes needs to instead concentrate on the strats, because they are doing something terribly wrong.

    But even still, I don´t see what the problem is.. even in a full Pug, they only take an hour, if that.

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