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  1. #21
    I find both good and bad points to this addition. I like the idea of getting better gears as you play more, that definetly is something interesting and I have read all threads on this post so I can say I agree with the fact that upgrading the gear is a good addition to the game.

    The only downside that I find quite unfair is Alts, and Offspect. Let me know what you think about those please.

    I have two level 90, a paladin and a druid, 87 shaman, 86 paladin 86 DK and rest are all 85 but rogue lvl 80 and no monk. During cataclysm I leveled all classes but my rogue to 85 and geared them so I could do arenas on all of them and be competitive. I understand that I should not care for my alts as much as for my main. However at some point in the season I always feel like I want to play something else, I want to try something new. So I start gearing, leveling, grinding on one of my alts. My point is that once im at the point where I want some change, its going to take me months to get fully non-upgraded gears and even longer to get them upgraded. Yea I sure could start grinding right now on all my alts so they are all set up for when I need them, not not everyone has the time to do so. I dont. I have school, work, and I play more than 20 hours a week. ( I consider myself lucky to be able to do that ). The new feature will hurt alts, even if its not as bad as new players this should be worked on. Possibly make the conquest cap account wide? Maybe it would be a solution to this minor problem. Id love to see everyones opignon on this matter =)

    Secondly is offspect. I play holy on my paladin in pvp, but every season I gear up for retribution as well. I love to support my team/partners but I also love going in BGs and pop all cooldowns then global someone. I know I have some skill, definetly not the best player in the world, but im not the worse either, skill definetly helps me in both arenas and BGs but I also need gears to be able to do decent damage. We all know the state of retribution paladin at the moment, its not hard to be good on them. So the major factor on this problem is gears. Since my main spect is Holy, adding upgrades will increase the time it will take me to have the best gears available for Holy, then I need to work on retribution gears which will take even longer. Say I get to 2000 arenas rating, and 2000 Rbg rating. it gives me a cap of over 2600 pts, to get fully gears I need more than 26250 conquest with the non-2200 weapon ( a bit more because I sadly did not have access to my wow account when I looked that up ) That is 10 weeks, 2 months and a half to get fully geared. 2 more weeks for the 2200 weapon so you can get to 12 weeks. Then you need to upgrade those gears. I dont have enough informations about it to guess how much its going to cost, but say its only the main pieces, 1500/piece *5 = 7500conq. So getting a full set of pvp gears would cost you more than 33750 conquest points without the 2200 weapons, thats more than 13 weeks of capping at a decently arena rating/RBG rating if to get one of your 2sets of gears.

    Maybe it doesnt sound that bad, but if you wish to have an offspect that is well gears you would need at least 23 weeks of play during a patch. Then, the amount of time you can enjoy those gears depends on the amount of time the patch last. Since on the next tier you can expect honor gears to be better than the fruit of those 23 weeks you ve spent getting geared up.

    So What I could suggest would be to first, make conquest cap account wide, as conquest is only available to lvl 90 it shouldnt make too much trouble, maybe also think about adding the same feature/buff you did for valor points to conquest, when you cap on one toon you get a buff that increase conquest earned. For offspect gears, I couldnt think of many ways to help that out, I know its not a big concern for many since only a few classes actually have offspect pvp gears available. Monks, Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Priests, maybe I am missing one? One of my suggestions would be reduce the cost of the conquest gears as the season go on, but dont touch the cost of upgrades. I dont believe its the best solution, Ill try to find a better one for sure but right now its all I have. Please me know what you all think =)
    Last edited by Honnycorns; 2012-11-02 at 03:57 PM.

  2. #22
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
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    I think it's a good change only because what did you guys do with your leftover VP/JP/CP/HP towards the end of every tier of Cata? Nothing. This change is meant to allow you to use a currency instead of the currency doing absolutely nothing for you.
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  3. #23
    my take on this is, the same as your OP. It is utterly crapbullshitidea.
    I to wanna finish my gear so i can seriously focus on PVP FOR REAL! I do not want to grind for gear endless......................ITS BORING! FOR ME!

    To the guy who wrote that people likes to upgrade his gear, that is why they dont play guildwars2, utterlybullcrap talk. I do not play gw2 because i believe the gameplay is lame, nothing less nothing more

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 05:00 PM ----------

    Ok i read some more comments, Yes what did i DO WITH my leftover honor points........Well nothing cuz blizzard didnt implent anything towards it...But instead of doing this lamecrapidea of UPGRADING your boring gear already, PUT SOMETHING ELSE IN THER FOR HONOR?

    Lets see, what can they possible put there: Pets, mount, thats two things already. MATS, thats three. What else? Money??? THats four.........I dont come up with anything more but thats enought already, dont start with this stupid argument that WHAT TO DO WITH MY LEFTOVERHONOR.........

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by maaci View Post
    my take on this is, the same as your OP. It is utterly crapbullshitidea.
    I to wanna finish my gear so i can seriously focus on PVP FOR REAL! I do not want to grind for gear endless......................ITS BORING! FOR ME!

    To the guy who wrote that people likes to upgrade his gear, that is why they dont play guildwars2, utterlybullcrap talk. I do not play gw2 because i believe the gameplay is lame, nothing less nothing more
    It's not an endless upgrade cycle, stupid. It's 1500 honor per piece, ONCE, or 750 conquest per piece TWICE. Nothing more. You get a few extra ilvls of stats. Please read the update notes before you QQ about what you think it going on.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    It's not an endless upgrade cycle, stupid. It's 1500 honor per piece, ONCE, or 750 conquest per piece TWICE. Nothing more. You get a few extra ilvls of stats. Please read the update notes before you QQ about what you think it going on.
    That's a total of 24000 honor if you are able to upgrade every piece of gear.....

  6. #26
    As above said, 24000 honor for one character.
    One alt x2, two alts, x3.
    See whre iam going? Just having one main its still really really REALLY STUPID IDEA. Next season, the process starts over....................See where iam going? ENDLEESS AS IN NOT LITERALLY ENDLESS OBVIOUSLY

  7. #27
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
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    Patch comes out with more pets and mounts to grind honor for....SEE WHERE IM GOING!?!?!?!?



    Derp.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by maaci View Post
    As above said, 24000 honor for one character.
    One alt x2, two alts, x3.
    See whre iam going? Just having one main its still really really REALLY STUPID IDEA. Next season, the process starts over....................See where iam going? ENDLEESS AS IN NOT LITERALLY ENDLESS OBVIOUSLY

    Honor grind for gear is what? about 30k ? so adding this on to it its then around 54k honor to fully complete your character, If you are looking to gear alts as well then quit your job for a while.

  9. #29
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    Honor grind for gear is what? about 30k ? so adding this on to it its then around 54k honor to fully complete your character, If you are looking to gear alts as well then quit your job for a while.
    Took a few hours to get all blue level gear on my paladin during WSG weekend on release... Just group with your friends and roll some bads.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    That's a total of 24000 honor if you are able to upgrade every piece of gear.....
    Yet it's not endless, and at that point you've gotten conquest gear as well - which negates the "requirement" to upgrade EVERY piece of honor gear. Please think a little before arguing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by maaci View Post
    As above said, 24000 honor for one character.
    One alt x2, two alts, x3.
    See whre iam going? Just having one main its still really really REALLY STUPID IDEA. Next season, the process starts over....................See where iam going? ENDLEESS AS IN NOT LITERALLY ENDLESS OBVIOUSLY
    I only have one character and I don't think it's stupid by any stretch. My game time is limited so when I play I want to maximize my time to progress ratio. There is zero reason to have multiple toons if you're going to bitch and whine about not having enough time to do everything you want to do.
    Last edited by Sojou; 2012-11-02 at 04:52 PM.

  11. #31
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    Honor grind for gear is what? about 30k ? so adding this on to it its then around 54k honor to fully complete your character, If you are looking to gear alts as well then quit your job for a while.
    Solid arguement >_<

    The problem is that with pvp power the range between not geared and fully geared is bigger than ever.

    If they don't lower the price of base honor gear or improve crafting gear when this goes live it will be a nightmare for players trying to enter the scene late.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    Solid arguement >_<

    The problem is that with pvp power the range between not geared and fully geared is bigger than ever.

    If they don't lower the price of base honor gear or improve crafting gear when this goes live it will be a nightmare for players trying to enter the scene late.
    With the passive 40% damage resistance all players have vs other players, the range has never been closer. Instead of someone doing 80% extra damage to you because of gear, they're only doing 40%.

  13. #33
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    With the passive 40% damage resistance all players have vs other players, the range has never been closer. Instead of someone doing 80% extra damage to you because of gear, they're only doing 40%.
    What happens when pvp power raises to insane levels? mine is already at 18% and i have a mix of crafted gear and blues with a couple pve epics (no gems or enchants). What happens at 41%?

    The problem before was just a ton of primary and secondary stats, now that we have a stat that cuts through resilience new players are screwed. Even with the 40% base they are going to get rolled harder than ever if they try to go from a fresh 90 to BGs in mid-late5.1

    Especially considering they will have to first buy honor gear, and then upgrade it TWICE to close the gap. See the problem here? VP upgrades are a great idea, I love it. It has no place in PvP. Give us vanity items or gold for excess honor.


    EDIT 2: The more I think about it, the more I like this system but that's only because I won't have the huge obstacle to overcome when it goes live. I think they would need to make a new set of crafted gear, reduce honor cost of base items, or add some way to speed up gear progression for the players that are really behind (just for the base honor gear)
    Last edited by Orangetai420; 2012-11-02 at 05:29 PM.
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  14. #34
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    What happens when pvp power raises to insane levels? mine is already at 18% and i have a mix of crafted gear and blues with a couple pve epics (no gems or enchants). What happens at 41%?
    39% PVP Power 62% PVP Resil, still getting rolled by mages in a deep freeze.
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  15. #35
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagan View Post
    39% PVP Power 62% PVP Resil, still getting rolled by mages in a deep freeze.
    Now imagine 40% base resil in quest/crafted gear against a player with 55% PvP power + insane amounts of primary and secondary stats.

    EDIT: I suppose resil would be a bit higher with crafted gear but you get the point

    I remember Armor pen being really, really stupid when you could stack it so high that players would have negative armor. I see the same problem happening in a similar, yet different way with PvP power (I know it isn't the same, but its an example)
    Last edited by Orangetai420; 2012-11-02 at 05:18 PM.
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  16. #36
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    Now imagine 40% base resil in quest/crafted gear against a player with 55% PvP power + insane amounts of primary and secondary stats.

    EDIT: I suppose resil would be a bit higher with crafted gear but you get the point

    I remember Armor pen being really, really stupid when you could stack it so high that players would have negative armor. I see the same problem happening in a similar, yet different way with PvP power (I know it isn't the same, but its an example)
    PVP Power was Blizzard's way of negating the use of PVE gear in arenas (IE last season with Rogues). It's a very useful stat, and will remain the primary stat to stack when PVP'ing seriously. It's not PVP Power that's the issue, it's the burst from certain classes.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    What happens when pvp power raises to insane levels? mine is already at 18% and i have a mix of crafted gear and blues with a couple pve epics (no gems or enchants). What happens at 41%?
    The same thing that happened in BC, Wrath and Cata - you get rolled. If you enter a BG in quest greens and go up against a gear opponent you're going to get stomped. The 40% passive reduction just decreases the damage you're going to take.

    The problem before was just a ton of primary and secondary stats, now that we have a stat that cuts through resilience new players are screwed. Even with the 40% base they are going to get rolled harder than ever if they try to go from a fresh 90 to BGs in mid-late5.1
    There is crafted gear that provides a really solid chunk of pvp resistance. I'm not going to shed a tear, or concern myself with someone complaining about getting rolled when they are rocking zero resistance despite alternate methods of gaining that stat readily available to them. I started playing MOP late, and I hit 90 2 weeks ago. Before I stepped foot into a BG I made sure I had a full suit of crafted gear (plus I spent the 4k honor I had banked from Cata).

    Especially considering they will have to first buy honor gear, and then upgrade it TWICE to close the gap. See the problem here? VP upgrades are a great idea, I love it. It has no place in PvP. Give us vanity items or gold for excess honor.
    You are drastically over exaggerating the gear gap of EIGHT ilvls. Step back for a moment and look at the stats. You're looking at approximately +30 increase in pvp power/resilience per piece or somewhere in the ball park of 210 overall. That's not enough to be globaled. You're making a far bigger deal over this then it really is considering you're in a BG with a bunch of other people.

    EDIT 2: The more I think about it, the more I like this system but that's only because I won't have the huge obstacle to overcome when it goes live. I think they would need to make a new set of crafted gear, reduce honor cost of base items, or add some way to speed up gear progression for the players that are really behind (just for the base honor gear)
    They don't need new crafted gear. It'll be the same as in Cata - it'll upgrade by default each season.

  18. #38
    http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/23...points-on-ptr/

    People on ArenaJunkies are mad too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbobagshot
    ...mountains of blood elf priest pussy irl is any pve player's dream.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    Here's the clever (depending on which side of the dev table you're sitting on) paradigm: This isn't actually about item upgrades.

    It's a design decision to extend the time that you'll spend subbed and doing dailies or dungeon runs trying to meet your weekly valor cap. You know why? Because they will balance content around gear item level X, subtract 8 ilvls from that arbitrary number and then say "Here, guess what? You can upgrade your gear with valor points!".

    Real world example: It's no different then getting today what would have been 90% of a game six years ago and getting the other 10% today as DLC you have to pay extra for.

    It's dodgy as all hell, but ilvl upgrades are no different then gating dailies behind dailies or including a secondary skill like cloud serpent riding that's per-character. Or, for that matter, point caps and dailies with no tabards or turnins. It's about artificially setting the goal posts another 20 yards forward and then spacing out how many downs it takes to get there. It's all about making you come back and play every day.
    Sounds about right, come patch 5.1, those double faction rep items you can get at revered to double your rep gain?
    From slow->norm once you factor in the time it takes to gain that amount of rep.
    Set rep gain to low, player complaints? Raise it to normal, players took the bait? Yes. Profit

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetimpact View Post
    Sounds about right, come patch 5.1, those double faction rep items you can get at revered to double your rep gain?
    From slow->norm once you factor in the time it takes to gain that amount of rep.
    Set rep gain to low, player complaints? Raise it to normal, players took the bait? Yes. Profit
    I didn't (and still don't) think what Blizzard did with the rep gains in MOP to be a bad thing. I know it upset a lot of people with tons of alts, but the overall concept of moving reputation grinds out into the world was done because of previous expansions of complaining about the lack of world PvP and how the game had spiraled into a world of sitting in your capital waiting for queues to pop.

    I like the fact that when I'm out and about I see people from my faction and the other faction running around doing stuff. It makes the game feel like a MMO all the time, and not just when in an instanced PvE or PvP event.

    The side of effect is obviously longer periods of "down time" before being maxed out in something, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. People with alts are too self entitled however. They create a bunch of characters and then complain they don't have the time to do everything they "need to". Instead of looking at the situation and admitting they have more then they can handle, their first knee jerk reaction is to complain to Blizzard for putting too much stuff in the game to do.

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