Item Upgrades with honor/conq. WHY? and pvp rant.

[Rorke]

Play on the Tournament Realm is you hate gear imbalance. Otherwise, find something else to do.

[EqualWin]

this is a good change for people w.o life

bad change for people with life... (well not that bad if you just play 1 char)

but if you have alts.. this sucks really bad stupid blizzard fucking up on things that aren't needed

[Stede]

It's retarded. Particularly in this season. Hunters and Warriors were OP at launch and I'm sure they're sitting their roflstomp 3s teams to hold their cap high and farming up max CP in 2s to get better gear faster than everyone else. Now they'll also be able to sit and farm CP to further increase their gear level.

It rewards more grinding, which is the way WoW is going in MoP - design a bunch of content, gate the shit out of it behind ridiculous grinds. God forbid a no-lifer finishes everything before the next patch. I brought up fotm classes too, because the historic counter to catching the nerfbat is to re-roll fotm. Let's be honest. It is. If you're still playing, you gotta admit that you do what you gotta do because Blizzard is craptastic about fixing things. Well, now, if you re-roll, good luck catching the guys who'd main'd fotm since launch.

The tourney realm is honestly the closest thing WoW has to balanced PvP. PvP in WoW would be much better as its own game. I could rant and ramble for ages, I just don't feel like....

[Deleted]

but if you have alts.. this sucks really bad stupid blizzard fucking up on things that aren't needed

This. 1000 times over.

Blizz need to sort out class balance issues, not add more systems to separate pvpers even more..

[Deleted]

Is this to replace moving the gear down a tier? but instead you just add bits to your current gear?

So where previously, you'd be decked out in say season 9, then the next season you'd replace each piece with an ever so slight increase in ilvl season 10 piece.. then season 11 .. each time you need to grind out a full item even though it's only a slight increase.

Or will they be doing both.. so honour gear disappears, malevolent becomes honour.. new conquest gear + these upgrade things?

[Deleted]

Padding the gear grind like this shows blizz still don't know how to do progression right.

Having a measurable and visual system of progression is awesome. Why it has to be ilvls is beyond me. One thing you have to admit is, no matter how you felt about the gear grind, or the item costs or what have you, at least once you bought an item it was done with (until next season/upgrade). Not anymore.

Instead of this useless system, adding vanity or visual progression that would make players happy ("spend 10000 honor and get a cool hat!") and keep them grinding, they do the worst possible thing and make it feel like a forced upgrade. "Grind more or you won't be competitive!"

Even the way they implement it shows they have no understanding of game design. If they had made the normal gear cheaper and added in "bonus" gear at a higher ilvl, even without changing the system people would go "hey, that's cool". Instead it's "you thought your gear was done with? Mhwaha, no!" and now people are understandably reacting negatively.

[Sojou]

Padding the gear grind like this shows blizz still don't know how to do progression right.

Umm, they've been doing gear progression through ilvl upgrades since the game's launch. I think they have this portion of the game locked down and perfect to what the bulk of their playerbased wants.

Having a measurable and visual system of progression is awesome. Why it has to be ilvls is beyond me. One thing you have to admit is, no matter how you felt about the gear grind, or the item costs or what have you, at least once you bought an item it was done with (until next season/upgrade). Not anymore.

It's a few ilvls because it makes the player feel as though their time invested is worth something. You act as though this is going to take you an entire season to farm. It's not... It's going to artificially add another week of casual honor farming and then keep people CONSISTENTLY going arena/rated battlegrounds if they want to upgrade their gear (and keep their ranking) instead of sitting at the top after 1 week of farming their rating.

Instead of this useless system, adding vanity or visual progression that would make players happy ("spend 10000 honor and get a cool hat!") and keep them grinding, they do the worst possible thing and make it feel like a forced upgrade. "Grind more or you won't be competitive!"

Vanity items don't work for the majority of pvpers. PVPers don't sit around in capital cities showing off a mount thinking that people around them give a shit.

Even the way they implement it shows they have no understanding of game design. If they had made the normal gear cheaper and added in "bonus" gear at a higher ilvl, even without changing the system people would go "hey, that's cool". Instead it's "you thought your gear was done with? Mhwaha, no!" and now people are understandably reacting negatively.

Some people are reacting negatively. Sorry that you want to max your character out in a weekend, but they're trying to keep people in competitive pvp longer than 3 days right now. Additional gear progression and MMR boosting after consistent play are the first steps in trying to make this happen.

If you don't like gear grinds, you might want to try GW2. You can be 100% done with your gear 1 hour after hitting level 80 in that game.

[Niyari]

i hate the change as well. my only entertainment from this game comes from doing random bg's, and as you know, random bg's aren't exactly an efficient way to get Conquest Points, so i'll always be behind in gear to someone that only has to spend 2 hours a week doing arenas.

i guess it's a sign though. there are lots of games coming out this month and this just makes it easier to leave my account canceled haha

[Deleted]

Umm, they've been doing gear progression through ilvl upgrades since the game's launch. I think they have this portion of the game locked down and perfect to what the bulk of their playerbased wants.

There is a distinct difference between getting new items (the "new-and-shiny" effect) and duct taping together old crap to make it suck less. By way of example, you could give people one set of gear and simply reward them with ilvl points to spend as they please, reforge-style, and that system would be virtually the same as making new items with big ilvl jumps. Yet one feels a lot more interesting, and compelling to the user.

It's a few ilvls because it makes the player feel as though their time invested is worth something. You act as though this is going to take you an entire season to farm. It's not... It's going to artificially add another week of casual honor farming and then keep people CONSISTENTLY going arena/rated battlegrounds if they want to upgrade their gear (and keep their ranking) instead of sitting at the top after 1 week of farming their rating.

It's too late for me to do the math, but if it's 1500 e.g to fully upgrade each honor piece, and they cost 1250/1750/2250, it's a significant added cost. It also makes zero sense to add this to normal honor gear, which is uncapped (other than total cap) if the goal is to promote regular play for arenas and RBG's.

Getting people to not sit at the top is a problem best solved in different ways (pool/rating decay, min game requirements, etc, lots of games have these things), and IIRC blizz are attempting to do this already. This is a poor way to do it.

Vanity items don't work for the majority of pvpers. PVPers don't sit around in capital cities showing off a mount thinking that people around them give a shit.

So then what's all the gladiator titles and frost-blood-spike-deathdragon bits about? Players love to express themselves, and they love to show off. That is why we have name titles, mounts, realm first achievements and transmog gear. The idea that PvPers as a group, especially the most competitive ones, would be less interested than "average" people to show off makes very little sense.

Some people are reacting negatively. Sorry that you want to max your character out in a weekend, but they're trying to keep people in competitive pvp longer than 3 days right now. Additional gear progression and MMR boosting after consistent play are the first steps in trying to make this happen.

If you don't like gear grinds, you might want to try GW2. You can be 100% done with your gear 1 hour after hitting level 80 in that game.

I actually preferred the older systems; I'm still partial to the vanilla/arena-style ranking with limited gear available based on performance and not time investment (I am aware R14 took forever). It's hard to argue for padding a system that doesn't concern itself with the skill of its participants - the logical follow-up question is why they "only" added X points, rather than X x 2 for even more life. If the only reason people PvP is to upgrade their PvP gear (rather than for the joy of it), then you're only dragging them through a longer period before they get what they want. And inevitably, they'll get it and... stop PvP'ing? I don't know. The only thing that really changes is the bar to entry is higher and takes longer to climb. It doesn't really change the system.

My point would be that making a compelling PvP experience with genuinely interesting rewards (mounts, titles, tabards, pets, vanity items, transmog, cool-looking gear, etc) will keep people playing both for progression and entertainment. If they are trying to solve the problem of "not enough people are PvP'ing", then the logical place to start is "are players having fun? If not, how do we make it fun?" and not "let's make the grind longer".

PvE progression has shiny new loot (often with new art), shiny new enviroments and new bosses, with either new mechanics or some mix of old ones.

If "additional gear progression" for PvP means "do the exact same thing, but for 40% longer", I stick to my point - that is horrible game design.

Thank you for your kind game recommendation, though.

[Deleted]

Necroing dis thread as its relevant again...

I was right blizz was wrong thank god this stupid idea is going

+ 10 points to me for being better than blizzard employees

[Delznope]

Why is this being implemented?

This just separates hardcore and casual players yet again, i thought wow was moving towards Battlegrounds being balanced gear wise ( minus t2 weps)
with the removal of arena rating gear.

Adding a system to upgrade stats, makes a larger gap between those who start pvping and those in full pvp gear with fully upgraded stats.
Which puts people off pvping when then get completely stomped on because of gear.

IMO in a perfect world blizz should take advice from GW2 PvP.
Im not a big fan of GW2 but the idea they had about PvP gear was brilliant.

Everyone goes in with the same stats, so the pvp is not about "Oh look i have a full set of gear and a t2 wep, i automatically win this fight"
the reward for playing alot of pvp in gw2 was better looking gear but no stat upgrades.
Is is not ridiculous that good players should get stat upgrades anyway? If you already have a skill advantage of being a better player why should the game then reward you with a damage/defensive increase?

-Back on topic. Adding item upgrades with conq/honor means you never really finish a set of gear and that really annoys me, the main reason i dont PVE is because the whole things seems like a pointless gear grind that never ever ends, where you're not really there to enjoy yourself just get gear to increase your Epeen.
I like the fact that i can actually finish gear and just enjoy battelgrounds, not thinking "how much honor do i need for my upgrade".

IMO stat upgrades are a horrible idea, seems another thing i will just have to deal with.



Anyone Like/dislike this being implemented i would like to know where the pvp community stands on it


Sorry for the rant i kinda got way off topic there.

To answer the question in your title OP, Bliz wants you to invest time and effort into their game. It means more money for them.