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  1. #1

    Good Example of BM done wrong

    So the other day I jump into an LFR, it pops up 2/6 (which means I get do Will with a raid that has more than likely wiped at least once). We are waiting on two more healers so I inspect my monk co-tank (I am also BM) and cant believe what I am seeing. I send a very polite whisper telling him he should come here and check the guide on BM. He sends back "STFU, you don't know what you are talking about this is the best set up for monk tanks", I leave it at that. Anyways, he is using all these parry/stamina gems, reforging into parry, don't remember his enchants.

    We wipe the first try because he died and the other boss starting killing off everyone. We down him on the second try but the other tank died right before the bosses did. I looked at my logs after and there was a huge difference. He took twice as much damage as me, took close to 3 times as much healing from the healers than me, had 1/2 the self healing that I had, and to top it off only had 16% uptime on shuffle.

    This was the first time I have run LFR with another monk and gave me a good chance to see the differences. Running dungeons as heals I have yet to have a monk tank either. With monks playing like this player I see how we are getting a bad name with the general population.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Mehman's Avatar
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    I've done a single dungeon with a monk tank.. I was OOM after every trash pack. All other tank I've done heroics with have required me to take 0 mana breaks. Some monks suck because they have literally NO clue about how to play, others know how to play and are amazing (from what I've heard, I can't verify for myself).


  3. #3
    What a waste of a thread....

    Your post is a bit of a waste, too. If you've got nothing to add, please refrain from posting. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-11-02 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #4
    WoW has millions of players, many of the people you meet in pugs are terrible and either don't care what they're doing or have no interest in trying. I learned this about 1-2 days after the cross-realm dungeon system went live in Wotlk.

  5. #5
    Monks play incredibly differently to tanks from Cataclysm; hell, MoP tanks play different to Cataclysm tanks in general (haste for prot paladins ftw), the difference is just more obvious with Monks since it's a new class.

    His stats, logically speaking, sound like they could be acceptable. They're of course not, but those are the 'accepted' tank stats. He could very easily have thought that's the way to do it and has yet to see anything contradicting his way of thinking. Almost certainly because he's not bothering to research, but hey.

    From what you're saying, it sounds like you did the right thing; pointed him in the right direction for a resource to learn from. Of course, we only have your word on whether you were polite or not, so we have no idea if he was justified or not in his response. No point judging one way or the other there.

    The community will pick up Monks in time, they'll figure us out and get the idea. Until then we'll have to put up with this. Death Knights got it in WotLK, now it's our turn.

  6. #6
    Kisho,

    I am always polite when I try to give someone information about there class. I am not like the monk healer in LFR two weeks ago that went off in /raid about how I had no idea about monk tanking because I was DW and had haste gems (checked his armory and he was MW/WW specced). I just told him he should check out the guide here, said nothing about what he was doing wrong.

    I was a DK at the start of WotLK, now I am going thru it all again. Why do I like to punish myself like this?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by scotty823j View Post
    What a waste of a thread....
    I thought it was a good story.

  8. #8
    ive had both kind sadly lol. great monks that actually kited when needed (lol weird right)
    and ones that spammed spinning crane kick the entire instance
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos- View Post
    I literally die every time i see people using literally wrong.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
    ive had both kind sadly lol. great monks that actually kited when needed (lol weird right)
    and ones that spammed spinning crane kick the entire instance
    This actually reminds me of a TBC dungeon I ran earlier this week. I was at the highest level I could be and still run the dungeon and with heirlooms and some WotLK gear it was a cake walk and I was just pulling tons of packs and spamming Keg Smash, BoF, and SCK. Since I was a higher level I wasn't losing much health and the health I did lose I got back via self healing. The healer told everyone in the group I was amazing and that that was how a good tank looks. I told him I was tanking completely wrong as a Monk and that this isn't how I tank level appropriate content.

    That being said, bravo for calmly telling the other Master of Brew to come here and check it out. It's a shame he was so harsh and unwilling to learn how to play the class at it's best.
    杜氏清兵衛

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Monks play incredibly differently to tanks from Cataclysm; hell, MoP tanks play different to Cataclysm tanks in general (haste for prot paladins ftw), the difference is just more obvious with Monks since it's a new class.

    His stats, logically speaking, sound like they could be acceptable. They're of course not, but those are the 'accepted' tank stats. He could very easily have thought that's the way to do it and has yet to see anything contradicting his way of thinking. Almost certainly because he's not bothering to research, but hey.
    This is my only grippe with their new active mitigation tanking style. It's no longer intuitive as to what a tank should gear for, so unless they look up guides (and there are plenty out there that have contradicting information) they will suck.

    At least in past xpacs if you weren't balacing DRs on parry/dodge, or gemming wrongly, you could still tank decently. Now the gap is much larger, and a lot of people still don't grasp the new styles (Every tank style included). I am seeing a lot more "bad" tanks these days as a result, and I don't think its exclusive to BM. Although with it being a new class they do probably have the largest %.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    His stats, logically speaking, sound like they could be acceptable. They're of course not, but those are the 'accepted' tank stats. He could very easily have thought that's the way to do it and has yet to see anything contradicting his way of thinking. Almost certainly because he's not bothering to research, but hey.
    This is true, you're a tank, so a tanking stat in your gems is arguably a good idea, at least from a theoretical standpoint. At least he didn't put in dodge!

    All that aside, if you were polite, Fecund, then you did your job. Hopefully he'll get some meters linked to him by other brewmasters showing how good he's doing and he'll seek help... but somehow, I doubt he will : /

  12. #12
    I'm not even 70 yet, but when talking to Healers they have told me my biggest problem is during the initial pull when all mitigations are down. It's those first few seconds in which I take the biggest spike, but once shuffle, guard,a nice chi wave are up and running and collecting my spheres, all is well.

  13. #13
    The Patient
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    Yeah, the first few seconds of a pull can definitely make you pucker up. I wish we had something passive that would help. The 25% damage reduction from ox stance doesn't cut it.

  14. #14
    I just picked up healing on my monk as my off off spec (have to tank/dps in raid) and I had a monk tank in a shado-pan heroic. He didn't even know that blackoutkick did anything for tanks, and never used purifying brew. He even said he was main spec dps and was just tanking for short queues. I kept him up as best I could until he pulled a pack while I was typing to him to try to help him understand how to tank. I was mostly OOM so we ended up wiping, I finished typing what I was trying to tell him he twas being bitchy so we kicked him and got a new tank.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Pretty sure I could leave my gear totally un-gemmed and un-enchanted and out perform a lot of other BrM's, though usually people doing it "wrong" also indicate they don't know the other class mechanics either. My bet is he was eating most of the arcing combo's and was getting raped from no armor.

    LFR I did this week had a pally that had never done it before and he got destroyed and I ended up having to tank both bosses, so on that fight it's just as much "execution" fail as class fail.

    On a lighter note two of my friends just hit 90 last night so my MW friend and I started chain running them through LFD for gear. Got a warlock pug and he was probably like "F me 4 Pandaren monk's, seriously?" but then started griping he couldn't even get dots up before we SCK melted everything and bosses died insanely quick with 4 Xuen's + us beating on it. Plus I got to watch each of them die to boss mechanics they had never seen before so was good times all around =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  16. #16
    I actually wanted to form an all Monk guild and do normals just for the hell of it. Thought it would be quite fun.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecund View Post
    With monks playing like this player I see how we are getting a bad name with the general population.
    Same happened in WoLK when DKs were first released. You have to remember that the majority of the WoW population doesn't check 3rd party sites or theorycraft. It can take a while for best practices to become commonplace.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    Same happened in WoLK when DKs were first released. You have to remember that the majority of the WoW population doesn't check 3rd party sites or theorycraft. It can take a while for best practices to become commonplace.
    I agree, just hope he looked at his log or even recount to see the difference. Maybe that will get him to do some research.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I actually wanted to form an all Monk guild and do normals just for the hell of it. Thought it would be quite fun.
    Maybe not a GUILD...

    But that'd be a lot of fun to do in later tiers... revisit the previous tier as all monks and kick some ass.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivalen View Post
    I'm not even 70 yet, but when talking to Healers they have told me my biggest problem is during the initial pull when all mitigations are down. It's those first few seconds in which I take the biggest spike, but once shuffle, guard,a nice chi wave are up and running and collecting my spheres, all is well.
    Clash and Leg Sweep are your best friends in the world for this reason.

    Getting your defences up is a helluva lot smoother when everything's stunned.
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