What is harder, 10 or 25?

[felhunter]

depends on the fight, some are just easier on 25man and others on 10man.

25mans are harder too orginaze and keeping everyone in check.
losing someone during a fight is a bigger blow in 10 then 25.

each raid size has it pro's and cons, neither is easier

[Seezer]

So 25m is harder to organise + you need more people + the fight are harder ..... and yet morez guilds have killed shek'zeer in 25m.
Makes sense.

On a side note : i know other things have to be taken into account but imo they are rightly runed to be equal-ish, some fight will be harder for 10m some others for 25 but overall the difference isn't very noticeable (in terme of pure fight)

58 have killed she'zeer on 10 man. 46 on 25 man. That said, when we are stuck on bosses on the last raid night of the week, we usually break down into ten mans and down it. In T14 10's seem considerably easier imo.

[Zeverin]

It's only harder from an individual perspective if you are a baddie getting carried, if you are one of the best in your raid group it's actually much easier (individually) cause your skill accounts for more.

Just a technicality, I get your point, but if you're the baddie being carried, it's actually harder on the other 9 men, who are carrying you, and therefore must compensate for your bad performance.

[Whiskra]

The mode I play in is the hardest.

[Kaiuri]

25 man is legitimately easier this tier, since most boss mechanics/abilities/damage is identical on 25 as it is on 10. More c/ds for the same damage output = easier.

[Archidamos]

25 man is legitimately easier this tier, since most boss mechanics/abilities/damage is identical on 25 as it is on 10. More c/ds for the same damage output = easier.

That statement carries lots of weight...oh wait!
No you re wrong.
Just wait for paragon to roflstomp your 10 man content as they did with Vaults, and see if it will take to the second 10 man more than 3 days and 9 hours this time to defeat the same "difficult" content.

Watch it. -Azshira

[Kaiuri]

There's no need to be upset that it's a fact.

Watch it. -Azshira

[Woobels]

This thread started so well and civilized.
And then Kaiuri comes and along with it Archidamos and his comment aaaaaand it's gone.

[Raxxed]

As someone who has cleared some MSV heroics in both 10 and 25man, this tier, there is no specific 'easier difficulty'.

Both difficulties have their upsides, and their downsides.

There are certain fights that are more difficult in different ways on different difficulties, but there is no specific 'easier' difficult all round.

For example, Garajal's dps check felt tighter on 10man, but the raid damage seemed extremely higher in 25man.

There is no overall easier difficulty, and the sooner people realize that, the better.

[Azshira]

If you debate this (like the first page) in a clear and concise manner we'll leave this open. However when certain posters arrive with their 'bad' posts demonstrated in page 2 that's what we don't like.

[Moshic]

Your anecdotal account of progressing faster is because you have your most skilled players in 10 man.

These threads are stupid because people only are able to present anecdotal evidence becuase they're generally too stupid to realize that:
A) difficulty is always subjective
B) fight requirements can be easily quantified


Garalon for example, people whining saying 25m is harder when there is hard math that can affirm or refute (it refutes) that claim but nobody ever brings it up.

There needs to be a global rule against making these threads if there isn't already.

It's because 25 man IS harder, thus when switching to 10 man everyone will have found it easier.

[Marooned]

A) difficulty is always subjective
B) fight requirements can be easily quantified

difficulty is all about tuning, they can tune bosses to be very hard or very easy in either format. As evidence suggests recently 25 man encounters are tuned harder than 10 man and requirements are higher in 25 man.

[Tyrven]

25 mans are harder before you zone in and do anything. Once the raid is set up and ready 25 mans become slightly easier for most fights atm. We have a better chance of Obama and Romney working together and fixing issues in the US then ppl all having the same pov on this question that is asked over and over again.

[Ludacritts]

25s will always be "real" raiding to me. More coordination and output required from everyone. Just because it's 25 people doesn't mean 3-5 people can slack and you'll have no trouble on the encounter like I've heard quite a few people say about 25s. Both have their ups and downs, but 25 is where real raiding is.

[Proberly]

The raiding mode I raid in is the most difficult, because that makes me better than you.

[Qualia]

This discussion should have died the moment the first / top 10m guild that killed every HM bosses available stated (politely) that "Raiding 10man was fun, would have been nice if the bosses were a bit harder and if we could have had some competition from the other 10man guilds." - which can be interpreted as
- 10m bosses are easy (compared to what they felt about their old raiding mode)
- Other 10m guilds aren't even good enough to be considered competitors (explaining why there aren't that much 10m guilds killing bosses compared to 25)

[Deja Thoris]

This discussion should have died the moment the first / top 10m guild that killed every HM bosses available stated (politely) that "Raiding 10man was fun, would have been nice if the bosses were a bit harder and if we could have had some competition from the other 10man guilds." - which can be interpreted as
- 10m bosses are easy (compared to what they felt about their old raiding mode)
- Other 10m guilds aren't even good enough to be considered competitors (explaining why there aren't that much 10m guilds killing bosses compared to 25)

I don't care what is easier or harder.

But...

Interpreting what someone said is a funny thing. "Can be" interpreted as and should be isn't the same thing. What "I" read from that is that Paragon is way ahead of the other 10 man guilds, not that they think it makes one format easier or harder than the other.

[sTyLnK]

In 25 man, if you lose a dps for example, it's not the end of the world, in 10 man if you lose someone, it usually means it will be a wipe. Keyword being usually. But both are tough. 25 man is obviously a lot tougher to coordinate and keep track of everyone/everything.

[Supakaiser]

The raiding mode I raid in is the most difficult, because that makes me better than you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

IKR?!

L2P Skrubz 25m or GTFO

But in all seriousness and in my OPINION I prefer 10 mans because they are more personal. I've been in a few 25 mans and it just feels so boring. The fights feel epic, but the social aspect is flat unless you're someone who in a core member (ie been with said guild for a long time / founded the guild). I've always had more fun in 10 mans, but the fights don't feel as epic. It's a trade off, for me anyways.

As for difficulty, meh, as others have said it depends on the fight and the individuals involved. Herding cats is herding cats.

[Alkung]

25 man is definitely easier in well prepared group but for pug/random people/casual player it is definitely harder.