Landsoul's Armory: Overcap Hit and Carbonic Carbuncle?

[Hakto]

While it is interesting that for some people's current gear, windsong is 'close' to dancing steel on oh, this does not support that on current stat weights that 500 crit + 500 mastery + 500 haste is better than 1650 strength in any circumstance.

If it was 1500 crit I could see an argument made, but you can be unlucky and a couple of chain haste procs for example.

[Travex]

What stat weights are you all using for your simcraft iterations?
I see different weights all over the place >.>

[Ochron]

It may be related to SMF somehow, or even at higher item levels Windsong takes over? I don't see why that would be the case, but I'm a 480 ilvl, and TG (for lack of one handed drops, and my preference to the aesthetics) and with 10,000 iterations for each test one with Windsong in my OH, and one with Dancing Steel in my OH, it showed Windsong being 75,598, and Dancing Steel as 75,953.

I'm 489 equipped SMF.

While it is interesting that for some people's current gear, windsong is 'close' to dancing steel on oh, this does not support that on current stat weights that 500 crit + 500 mastery + 500 haste is better than 1650 strength in any circumstance.

If it was 1500 crit I could see an argument made, but you can be unlucky and a couple of chain haste procs for example.

I agree. That is why I want the see the logic and math behind it.

[Hakto]

I'm 489 equipped SMF.



I agree. That is why I want the see the logic and math behind it.

The only reason I can think of is that windsong is already on the 'real ppm' system while dancing steel goes to that system in 5.1.

[Egitel]

What stat weights are you all using for your simcraft iterations?
I see different weights all over the place >.>

Last time I ran it in my current gear set up (again, 480 ilvl and Titan's Grip), using a 50,000 iteration simc gave me stat weights of

Strength: 2.21
Crit: 2.10
Mastery: 1.12
Haste: 0.54

I don't remember the hit/exp weights, I need to run it again.

[Hakto]

Last time I ran it in my current gear set up (again, 480 ilvl and Titan's Grip), using a 50,000 iteration simc gave me stat weights of

Strength: 2.21
Crit: 2.10
Mastery: 1.12
Haste: 0.54

I don't remember the hit/exp weights, I need to run it again.

So a dancing steel proc is worth: 3646
Windsong proc is worth 1050+560+270 = 1880.

As previously stated, the only possible reason is because until 5.1 dancing steel is not on the 2 real ppm system that windsong is, so any benefit will be nullified come 5.1.

[Egitel]

So a dancing steel proc is worth: 3646
Windsong proc is worth 1050+560+270 = 1880.

As previously stated, the only possible reason is because until 5.1 dancing steel is not on the 2 real ppm system that windsong is, so any benefit will be nullified come 5.1.

Oh, yeah I definitely see that. I was just posting stat weights because someone asked for 'em, not necessarily because of the Windsong vs Dancing Steel thing. That being said, I'm using Windsong in my OH right now, only because I'm not dropping 10k for an enchant to a 463 weapon.

[Hakto]

Oh, yeah I definitely see that. I was just posting stat weights because someone asked for 'em, not necessarily because of the Windsong vs Dancing Steel thing. That being said, I'm using Windsong in my OH right now, only because I'm not dropping 10k for an enchant to a 463 weapon.

Definitely not worth it for what seems to be ~500dps for most people currently.

[Darkfriend]

That's a pretty good explanation. Thanks.
Would that mean we wouldn't need to get much higher than 9%~ hit since crit surpasses hit by then? (atleast on my config) hmm...

I'm not sure, but I think that simcraft calcs hit/expertise values BEFORE being capped. Could be wrong.

[Bloodletters]

While it is interesting that for some people's current gear, windsong is 'close' to dancing steel on oh, this does not support that on current stat weights that 500 crit + 500 mastery + 500 haste is better than 1650 strength in any circumstance.

If it was 1500 crit I could see an argument made, but you can be unlucky and a couple of chain haste procs for example.

That's not what it's about. What would make Windsong + Dancing Steel better has something to do with how the Dancing Steel buff worked and how it's shared or something between weapons. I'd have to listen to what he said again, but I don't recall exactly which video its in.

[Ochron]

That's not what it's about. What would make Windsong + Dancing Steel better has something to do with how the Dancing Steel buff worked and how it's shared or something between weapons. I'd have to listen to what he said again, but I don't recall exactly which video its in.

Are you saying that the problem is that if Dancing Steel procs off of both weapons at the same time that it only counts once?

[Egitel]

That's not what it's about. What would make Windsong + Dancing Steel better has something to do with how the Dancing Steel buff worked and how it's shared or something between weapons. I'd have to listen to what he said again, but I don't recall exactly which video its in.

What you're referring to is that weapon enchants can proc off of both your weapons when you're dual wielding. My MH enchant can proc from my OH attacks. So with Dancing Steel on your MH, and Windsong on your OH, both weapons can proc both, so you can (in theory) get a Dancing Steel buff, and all three seperate Windsong buffs at the same time. However, unless I am mistaken and Dancing Steel doesn't work like Landslide did (please correct me if I'm wrong) when you're dual wielding and have Dancing Steel on both weapons, you can have two stacks of Dancing Steel up, and they're up pretty much constantly, because of each weapon being able to proc their own, and the other weapon's enchant. Whereas when it's just on one, you can only refresh the one enchant, and can't get two at the same time. This is where the confusion is coming from, because two stacks of Dancing Steel (3300 strength) seems like it'd be much better than 1650 strength + 1500 crit + 1500 haste + 1500 mastery. The latter three also don't seem to have the best uptime ever, but I also haven't paying much attention to it other than just now beating on some dummies.

[Bloodletters]

Are you saying that the problem is that if Dancing Steel procs off of both weapons at the same time that it only counts once?

I don't want to say that with certainty because I haven't tested using both Dancing Steel procs personally. I believe that was what he was saying though. Those of you who have two Dancing Steel weapons will need to let us know if you can have two stacks of the buff at the same time.

[Egitel]

I don't want to say that with certainty because I haven't tested using both Dancing Steel procs personally. I believe that was what he was saying though. Those of you who have two Dancing Steel weapons will need to let us know if you can have two stacks of the buff at the same time.

According to comments on wowhead, you can have two stacks at the same time, only if the enchant is on both weapons though.

[Ochron]

I know that both buffs pop up, but the comment made me curious if both of them are actually added to my Strength.

[Egitel]

I know that both buffs pop up, but the comment made me curious if both of them are actually added to my Strength.

They are, yeah.

[Freedom]

I just tried Hit>Mastery and the difference is pretty big. It feels a lot more fluid, I rarely have any large downtime (of course I like to play dangerous with my rage - not anywhere near capping on an upcoming Csmash phase, but it gets results) and I can Execute on almost every GCD sub 20%.

This means another expansion of gearing/reforging different for Arms and Fury, but meh, whatever.

[Crushima]

Guys, remember that simcraft for dps warriors is extremely inaccurate at the moment. Only last week, they fixed a bug where raging blow would consume ALL charges instantly upon use. The fact that this bug remained for so long, shows the kind of research or double checking they actually do.

Trust landsoul over simcraft anytime.

[Ochron]

Guys, remember that simcraft for dps warriors is extremely inaccurate at the moment. Only last week, they fixed a bug where raging blow would consume ALL charges instantly upon use. The fact that this bug remained for so long, shows the kind of research or double checking they actually do.

Trust landsoul over simcraft anytime.

So, you're telling everyone to blindly follow the results of someone over something else? Yes, that makes perfect sense...

[Taik]

Well, when that "someone" is putting in a shit ton of effort, that apparently exceeds that of the developers of simcraft, I would say it makes sense yeah