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  1. #81
    This might be a simple answer, just remove the CB always critically strikes against player targets and have it benefit from backlash.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Nerfing cleave damage to increase already viable single target damage wont happen.
    I don't see any reason for it not to happen. Especially since Havoc + Shadowburn is such a niche cleave that requires adds with less than 20%. Who would ever want to be top in the rare add cleave-like boss in exchange for sucking in PvP and single target boss fights?
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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I don't see any reason for it not to happen. Especially since Havoc + Shadowburn is such a niche cleave that requires adds with less than 20%. Who would ever want to be top in the rare add cleave-like boss in exchange for sucking in PvP and single target boss fights?
    Sure, it's a tiny niche that is overly convoluted to exploit with respect to Shadowburn, but there really isn't all that much scope for improving single target damage; maybe 3-5%: that's not going to make the spec any better at PvP.

  4. #84
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    Blue post (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...73?page=21#403) :
    Even though it is off-topic, Chaos Bolt damage is something that has been mentioned here a few times. Understand that mistakes in arena should be something that creates consequences for you. Allowing a three second cast like Chaos bolt to finish is a mistake and as such the consequence is lots of incoming damage. The only time there is an exception to the three second cast is when Backdraft affects Chaos Bolt, which you can see coming from the Warlock having three Burning Embers. Awareness and good reactions helps preventing damage from this though.
    He has no clue of what he's talking about
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Sure, it's a tiny niche that is overly convoluted to exploit with respect to Shadowburn, but there really isn't all that much scope for improving single target damage; maybe 3-5%: that's not going to make the spec any better at PvP.
    What I'd honestly like to know is the difference in destro's DPS if Shadowburn + Havoc is used or not. I'm thinking it's quite big, but anyways, it's not like the spec is rocking the meters at the moment. I'm personally positive that Destruction can be viable in both PvP and PvE, but it's going to need some reworking, lots of math, and lots of effort.
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  6. #86
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Blue post (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...73?page=21#403) :


    He has no clue of what he's talking about
    It's a CM. Take everything they say about specific class mechanics with a grain of salt.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goit View Post
    This might be a simple answer, just remove the CB always critically strikes against player targets and have it benefit from backlash.
    The always critting part is one of the only good parts about it. It's reliable damage, which is needed when you can only use it so few times and it's such a huge part of our damage. In terms of resource using abilities that need resource generation first it's the spell that is used the least and takes the longest to build up. If we take the guaranteed crit away from it we're HUGELY susceptible to RNG, far more than any other spec. They would need to buff base damage in order to make up for that as well since we'd lose a significant amount of damage. In PvE, your suggestion wouldn't even make sense, as backlash rarely ever procs there.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    What I'd honestly like to know is the difference in destro's DPS if Shadowburn + Havoc is used or not. I'm thinking it's quite big, but anyways, it's not like the spec is rocking the meters at the moment. I'm personally positive that Destruction can be viable in both PvP and PvE, but it's going to need some reworking, lots of math, and lots of effort.
    I don't think it's nearly as big as people make out.

    I also think the numbers we ended up with weren't an accident and came about through a lot of maths and effort.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    The always critting part is one of the only good parts about it. It's reliable damage, which is needed when you can only use it so few times and it's such a huge part of our damage. In terms of resource using abilities that need resource generation first it's the spell that is used the least and takes the longest to build up. If we take the guaranteed crit away from it we're HUGELY susceptible to RNG, far more than any other spec. They would need to buff base damage in order to make up for that as well since we'd lose a significant amount of damage. In PvE, your suggestion wouldn't even make sense, as backlash rarely ever procs there.
    /facepalm - try actually reading what I wrote. Key points 'PLAYER TARGETS' and 'BACKLASH' - i.e. no changes to the PvE component - and a little give & take in PvP.

  10. #90

    Chaos Bolt Solution?

    • Reduce Chaos Bolt damage to 75% of its current value.
    • Chaos Bolt consumes only 1 Havoc charge.
    • Chaos Bolt consumes only 1 Backdraft charge.

    Consequences:
    Single target damage is reduced to 225% damage instead of 300% damage.
    Overall damage is increased to 450% damage instead of 400% damage.
    3 Ember cast time is reduced to 6.3 seconds instead of 8.1 seconds.
    Chaos Bolt becomes less all-or-nothing in PVP since benefits of Havoc and Backdraft are equally distributed.
    Increases PvE damage in multi-target fights where Havoc is applicable.

    Thoughts?

  11. #91
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    Sounds reasonable.

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  12. #92
    Every "chaos bolt fix" always seems to be posted by someone who doesn't PvP and wants a PvE buff.

    This won't fix the issues destro has. Namely inviability at high rating because all you need is a single cooldown, interrupt or even a dispel every 2 minutes to block it.

    Destro needs an overhaul;

    Damage too reliant on Dark Soul.
    No pressure outside of Chaos Bolt/Dark Soul.
    Damage during Dark Soul is comically high but insanely easy to stop.

    The problem is Dark Soul. Chaos Bolt hits for 100k outside of it, which is fair given it's cast time and cost. During Dark Soul, the damage ramps up to 180k, and can become unsurvivable with proper control.

    Destro damage needs a buff. Dark Soul needs a nerf.

  13. #93
    Bloodsail Admiral LeyrHao's Avatar
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    I second this.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 02:24 PM ----------

    I second this.

    In addition, I would change Havoc to also work on single target, I mean, if spells casted on a target are also duplicated on the Havoc'ed target, wether your target is the same or not, so you can use Havoc as a cleave mechanic or use it to double damage spell on the target.

    In PvP we lack a lot of preassure outside of Dark Soul + Chaos Bolt, this Havoc suggestion, plus a damage reduction on Chaos Bolt, could help create that much needed preassure.

  14. #94
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    In addition, I would change Havoc to also work on single target, I mean, if spells casted on a target are also duplicated on the Havoc'ed target, wether your target is the same or not, so you can use Havoc as a cleave mechanic or use it to double damage spell on the target.
    Seriously you have to stop with that idea... Someone is posting that every two days, this is a BAD idea because single target damage will be balanced around using it, so your cleave damage will be limited to having a second Immolate : YAAAAY.
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  15. #95
    This change I would like. Both for Pve and Pvp.

    PvP:
    Havoc on Target 1
    Fire off 3 chaos bolts on target 2.

    Laugh while both people die in 3 shots

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Every "chaos bolt fix" always seems to be posted by someone who doesn't PvP and wants a PvE buff.

    This won't fix the issues destro has. Namely inviability at high rating because all you need is a single cooldown, interrupt or even a dispel every 2 minutes to block it.

    Destro needs an overhaul;

    Damage too reliant on Dark Soul.
    No pressure outside of Chaos Bolt/Dark Soul.
    Damage during Dark Soul is comically high but insanely easy to stop.

    The problem is Dark Soul. Chaos Bolt hits for 100k outside of it, which is fair given it's cast time and cost. During Dark Soul, the damage ramps up to 180k, and can become unsurvivable with proper control.

    Destro damage needs a buff. Dark Soul needs a nerf.
    Although you present very valid points and I believe that Dark Soul is an issue for all 3 specs, I think that a change to chaos bolt is also needed. But yeah, Dark Soul is a major issue.
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  17. #97
    Try to keep the Chaos Bolt ideas in 1 place guys, no need to start a thread when there is a recent one on just this subject.
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  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral LeyrHao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Seriously you have to stop with that idea... Someone is posting that every two days, this is a BAD idea because single target damage will be balanced around using it, so your cleave damage will be limited to having a second Immolate : YAAAAY.
    Destruction is about managing resources, if you need to cleave, then don't use Havoc for single target... Yaaaaay...

  19. #99
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    You didn't understand, what I meant. If you can use Havoc in single target, then if your DPS is say 100k on a single target fight then your DPS on two targets will be what... 102k ?
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  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iry View Post
    • Reduce Chaos Bolt damage to 75% of its current value.
    • Chaos Bolt consumes only 1 Havoc charge.
    • Chaos Bolt consumes only 1 Backdraft charge.

    Consequences:
    Single target damage is reduced to 225% damage instead of 300% damage.
    Overall damage is increased to 450% damage instead of 400% damage.
    3 Ember cast time is reduced to 6.3 seconds instead of 8.1 seconds.
    Chaos Bolt becomes less all-or-nothing in PVP since benefits of Havoc and Backdraft are equally distributed.
    Increases PvE damage in multi-target fights where Havoc is applicable.

    Thoughts?
    Why after years of QQ about Destruction damage being flat, and having ineffectual burst/poor control over output are people now wanting it flattening again?

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