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  1. #281
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    That's your own shortcomings NOT Blizzards - WoW isn't a horror game
    Say that to the LK and all these DKs about.

    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    Warcraft has always being about friction between races... Filler or not the story makes sense.
    Nothing in WoW makes sense. We have space goats that fell out of space for Christ's sake!
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  2. #282
    Nope not at all , imo its vibrant and refreshning :P

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Say that to the LK and all these DKs about.



    Nothing in WoW makes sense. We have space goats that fell out of space for Christ's sake!
    But the undead are just one aspect the game. WoW was never scary (even by non-horror standards) and has always been predominately fantasy-adventure.

  4. #284
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I was wondering how people with Asian heritage viewed the expansion. I had my suspicions that it was blatantly stereotyped and pandering (lol). I guess the target demographic is white people that like the thought of "Asian stuff", but have no clue what's authentic and what isn't?
    Just like that panda pet. Sis is more disgusted in it than me. Back in the bad old days you hear that junk from bona fide racists, and hearing it in the game really hits a raw nerve. Kids in this PC world don't understand, they can only relate to the here and now. It's also patently insulting "I'm Scot-Irish it's not offensive to me!". Yeah, next time a Brit puts up a sign that says, "No Irish here" let's talk about what's offensive.

    I'm actually Japanese-Swedish in ancestry, so got a lowdown on both sides of the story. But I will never forget the overt and covert racism I faced for nearly 50 years. What my mom had to endure (God rest her soul) is unimaginable. Games like this is more of the same o' same o' stereotypes. The same stereotypes that imprisoned her people and took their consitutional rights away...all due to false perceptions of race. And all these kids see is "cute pandas". They simply will never understand.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Just like that panda pet. Sis is more disgusted in it than me. Back in the bad old days you hear that junk from bona fide racists, and hearing it in the game really hits a raw nerve. Kids in this PC world don't understand, they can only relate to the here and now. It's also patently insulting "I'm Scot-Irish it's not offensive to me!". Yeah, next time a Brit puts up a sign that says, "No Irish here" let's talk about what's offensive.

    I'm actually Japanese-Swedish in ancestry, so got a lowdown on both sides of the story. But I will never forget the overt and covert racism I faced for nearly 50 years. What my mom had to endure (God rest her soul) is unimaginable. Games like this is more of the same o' same o' stereotypes. The same stereotypes that imprisoned her people and took their consitutional rights away...all due to false perceptions of race. And all these kids see is "cute pandas". They simply will never understand.
    I understand completely but I have to ask could they have implemented a version of this sort of theme that you wouldn't find offensive of in poor taste? Frankly it does feel over the top to me and I have a particular sensitivity to asian stereotypes as well but their are games that have done this before that really didn't offend me. Jade Empire is a good example. It was steeped in Chinese lore and mythology and it never bugged me, hell I loved it because of that.
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    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #286
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kage View Post
    But the undead are just one aspect the game. WoW was never scary (even by non-horror standards) and has always been predominately fantasy-adventure.
    It was an entire expansion. Did you even play WotLK???

    Any game/movie/media that depicts undead in the way WotLK was shown is indeed horror. Blizzard made darn sure to name each of the gates to ICC with horrific names, too.

    You may see it as a funny past time expansion by ignoring the imagery, but others do not. Reanimated undead is the Frankenstein stuff.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    It was an entire expansion. Did you even play WotLK???

    Any game/movie/media that depicts undead in the way WotLK was shown is indeed horror. Blizzard made darn sure to name each of the gates to ICC with horrific names, too.

    You may see it as a funny past time expansion by ignoring the imagery, but others do not. Reanimated undead is the Frankenstein stuff.
    Been playing non-stop since Vanilla and having one undead themed expansion doesn't make WoW horror. The predominate vibe though out both Wrath and the four other games is Fantasy-Adventure. More D&D than World of Darkness ya know.

    Also the theme of the expansion is the cost of war.

  8. #288
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I understand completely but I have to ask could they have implemented a version of this sort of theme that you wouldn't find offensive of in poor taste? Frankly it does feel over the top to me and I have a particular sensitivity to asian stereotypes as well but their are games that have done this before that really didn't offend me. Jade Empire is a good example. It was steeped in Chinese lore and mythology and it never bugged me, hell I loved it because of that.
    Not to run on stereotypes.

    I keep going back to that panda pet, because if a company can't understand how patently offensive it can be, they will never understand how a game made around it could be. I'm not even Arab/Muslim, but some aspects of Cata in Uldum were offensive to me, too. It's the damn pattern of ignorance disguised as "fun" that is the problem.

    I'm more hyper aware of this stuff because all my adult life I had to protect my mom (let alone myself) from idiots. She passed away this summer literally in my arms, and the last thing I want to see is the same stereotypes and outright racism I tried to shield her from. We used to work together, and some guys would try to pick on her (she didn't understand and I glad she didn't) and I didn't care if they were 6FT tall athletes I told them I'd beat their ass up (I take no flak from no one and that's no internet tough guy junk). You get hardened by all the junk and hyper sensitive to it. It's why I keep saying folks don't understand, and won't until they are faced with the same situation.

    Westerners look at Asia as some mystical and exotic place. They depict their legends and all in a swath of mysticism too. But Asians are not exotic pandas in a far far away land, and often their legends are very, very, very sad. It's not funny at all. When the traditional lullabys are about horror and terror that awaits, more so. It's stark and bleak by Western standards. It's not Charlie Chan. It's not Jet. It's stories like "Oshin" and "Graves of Fireflies", all enough to make you cry for years on end.

    So when I see MoP, I see a cheap and obnoxious piece of work, ever so tainted by that pet. The same pet with it's typical Western stereotypes of Asians, and how disgusting that in in the 21st century it exists...and folks just as ignorant to it all, still.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 12:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kage View Post
    Been playing non-stop since Vanilla and having one undead themed expansion doesn't make WoW horror. The predominate vibe though out both Wrath and the four other games is Fantasy-Adventure.
    Fantasy-Adventure is Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. It's not undead reanimating the dead to do their bidding and a whole expansion based on death and decay. That is horror. Know the difference.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    <snip>
    My problem with "being offended" is that I'm sure that people from any middle eastern ethnicity be it arabic, muslim, hindu, etc. would not be offended by cat people or air elementals wearing turbans.

    Just like I'm not offended by short gingers with drinking problems. Even though dwarves share aspects of my ethnicity.

    When I think of China I think: and

    AND NOT

    and
    Last edited by Linkedblade; 2012-11-05 at 05:38 AM.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    I think he's just using big words to sound important on internet. "bafflingly obtuse" "nonsense"
    I guess the obvious sarcasm was wasted on you.

  11. #291
    Yes. Idc for the motif, so it gets old for me quick. The music and such just doesn't appeal to me.

    However, I'm still thoroughly enjoying the end game. And Klaxxi are pretty cool.

  12. #292
    The only problem I have with MoP's theme is that my orders to the take out place a mile away has increased dramatically since MoP's release.

    And no, I'm not joking, I used to order once every two or three weeks and now I'm ordering 1-2 times a week, at least the gym went 24hrs so I go there more often now.
    In the battle between good and evil, evil has more fun.

  13. #293
    I am Murloc! Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    <snip>
    So you're going to speak for all races and all people because you can read their minds? Like a raging schizophrenic with a crystal ball?
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
    They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."


  14. #294
    Poor sad people that decide to take offense in stuff for no damn reason at all.

    Seriously, if you're getting pissed off because you think MoP is just some satire to stereotype and put down Asian culture you're a moron incapable of realizing the difference between inspiration and racism. If you think Blizzard is saying "Lol the Chinese are panda people" with this expansion, you are purposefully choosing to be upset.

    Can you not just see that "hey we like this stuff and we like the art and landscapes so let's put it in something else we like, the game we make."
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    Is there a term you have for being shown proof and choosing to dismiss it?
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  15. #295
    As far as I'm concerned, if false characterizations or exaggerated characterizations are enough to categorize something as racist then almost everything in the world can be viewed as ethnocentric to some degree; you think blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-skinned, English-speaking "Asians" in Anime is an accurate depiction of the Orient?

    There is a difference between poor characterization used for entertainment purposes and poor characterization used for political and/or social purposes; for instance, telling a joke about a hook-nosed Jew is often hilarious (and even Jews themselves partake in these comical acts), yet using that same feature as a reason to exclude, deny service, relocate or annihilate said people is wrong. The cry racism herein seems like much ado about nothing.
    Last edited by Fyersing; 2012-11-05 at 06:32 AM.

  16. #296
    I still enjoy it, everyday I discover another small detail in this huge expainsion.
    Like a few days ago, while I was diggin up some archaeology stuff, I've spotted an empty chair in one digsite. Next to the chair was an instant noodle box and a can with some kind of soft-drink. Since there was a cogwheel poppin' up when I've hovered the chair, my character sat down and watched the sunset in the vale of the eternal blossoms.

    Like I said, I'm still enjoying this expansion :3
    ››yeah, here used to be a signature once. I've must lost it somewhere in the twisting nether... still waiting for the mail from the postmaster.

  17. #297
    Yeah im tired of it too. my favorite expansion was wotlk by a wide margin. very captivating environment

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Narutownsyouall View Post
    I am enjoying it I can only hope they make a cool anime theme
    I can only hope they never ever ever even think of doing such a thing.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    I was wondering how people with Asian heritage viewed the expansion. I had my suspicions that it was blatantly stereotyped and pandering (lol). I guess the target demographic is white people that like the thought of "Asian stuff", but have no clue what's authentic and what isn't?
    I'm as Asian as Kevyne, and I don't find MoP to be the least bit offensive. At least, not so far. I appear to not be as well aged, so the traumas of past injustices don't ring as loudly to my reality as they apparently do to his.

    I was actually quite disappointed when I learned that Blizzard had "caved" to the masses and was actually going to be offering the Pandaren as a player race. I'm still not entirely pleased with the way the females came out, but I love the males. Player race aside, I've enjoyed what I've seen of them in Pandaria. I guess it depends on how you perceive their behavior - some of my guildies insist that the Pandaren are hypocritical, but that hasn't been my experience so far. The themes are strongly Chinese, and that's not my ancestry; Blizzard had to make the Pandaren very distinctly Chinese, I think, or Chinese players/censors would have been deeply offended that anyone could associate their sacred beast with anything as uncivilized as the Japanese (and to varying degrees the other Asian nations, I assume).

    It doesn't seem insulting to Asian nationalities at all, to me. Perhaps I'm oblivious, and need things pointed out to me. I've been enjoying a lot of the music, as well, though I can't claim I absolutely LOVE all of it. Some of it's very bland and stereotypical, but there was a lot of bland music in past expansions as well.

    I suppose I'd compare expansion themes this way: None of them should be taken too seriously.

    Walking through Vanilla reminds me of going to a European themed Ren Fest.
    Going through Outland, well, that was just downright trippy with a combination of Caucasian fantasy (elves and orcs) and Caucasian sci-fi.
    Wrath reminded me of a cross between Pioneer Trail and the Vikings, but with more bones, more blood, and an end boss who seemed like an utter joke to me until it was time to face him down at his throne.
    Cata was just plain odd, a theme park but without a single theme other than "look at everywhere that's still molten rock!"
    MoP is, obviously, the Asian theme park with some emphasis on China, but not solely that one country.

    None of them felt particularly realistic, none felt particularly edgy or dark or hardcore, but that's just my personal opinion.

    I love the Grummles. I like the Klaxxi story line and really hope we get to see their entire story progress, rather than have them remain at odds for the next 10 years, and I love the Klaxxi architecture (and, to an extent, I love how annoyingly arrogant they are). I'm not looking for injustices or stereotypes to take issue with. That there are lots of Pandaren in MoP that speak with a "down south" American accent struck me as really odd, but I'm not sure how else they'd convey the atmosphere of an unsophisticated country bumpkin in a Chinese accent I wouldn't be able to tell from any other Chinese accent. Am I disappointed that they went with white voice actors putting on bad accents? Sure. They could afford the real thing if they'd wanted to, and it would have put a spotlight on some Asian voice talent. But they went with white American voice actors for the Tauren, the Trolls, the Orcs, the Draenei, the Dwarves, despite these races clearly being given themes that aren't "white american." Of course, when they originally recorded the voices they couldn't have had any idea just how popular their nerdy little game would eventually turn out to be - in the end, they're not doing anything particularly different for MoP just because it's got an Asian theme.

    I don't feel like they've taken Asian themes too seriously, nor not seriously enough. Perhaps there's some reference to the political tensions between the Japanese and EVERY OTHER Asian country, but that seems to be stretching things a bit.

    Maybe I'm just happy to find myself in a Fantasy MMO that is no longer completely Eurocentric, and am able to write off things for that reason alone.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    I'm still enjoying it very much, and it's looking to be getting more Horde vs. Alliance-y in 5.1.

    While I understand that the Wall is a "clear" reference to the Great Wall of China, the actual story with it-- manned by the Shado-Pan, meant to defend against a periodic, massive-scale danger and invasion-- actually reminds me MORE of the Wall from Game of Thrones.

    I still don't really understand why people are SO focused on having a euro-centric medieval fantasy word. For me, that's getting seriously old, it's used everywhere. I find Pandaria very refreshing and enjoyable, and I don't think that the Heart of Fear or the Dread Wastes looks stereotypically Asian at all.
    Are the Barrens euro-centric? Orgrimmar? TB? Ashenvale? STV? God I can go on forever. There's very VERY few euro-centric zones in the game. Variety is the foundation of this game. And this expansion lacks it sorely. Hell even WotLK had greater variety in the main themes of each zone. I personally still find tBC to be by far the best in terms of variation and uniqueness in zones as well aesthetic feels for each one.
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