Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    23,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    If the Alliance win, dictating terms to the Hord eis EXACTLY what they shoudl eb doing.

    Disarm.
    Leave Azshara, Ashenvale, Feralas, Felwood, Lordaeron and the other occupied territories
    Pay reparations
    The Horde can keep Mulgore, Durotar and the Barrens - but the Barrens Road will be Alliance territory, and they'll be setting up bases to keep an eye on the Horde.
    Criminals to be handed over for Trial.

    We should see Tirasgaarde rebuilt, and the Alliance Durotar incursion fortifed. Theramore and Northwatch, and the Alliance Barrens forts built up. We should see the Horde removed from territories the Alliance considers theirs. An Alliance embassy in Orgrimmar and an overseer in council.

    In short, the Alliance SHOULD have a say in Horde affairs.

    ***IF*** they win. They won't. Blizzard can't allow that. So there will be some fudge whereby the Allaicne "victory" will not be a victory. The Horde will say sorry and the Alliance will trust them and forgive the atrocities and let them keep the land they have conquered.

    Because, after all, it was Garroshes fault.

    And everyone will be happy.

    EJL

    Oh I doubt Blizzard will cave despite the heavy cynicism that clouds the forums these days.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  2. #42
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    If the Alliance win, dictating terms to the Hord eis EXACTLY what they shoudl eb doing.

    Disarm.
    Leave Azshara, Ashenvale, Feralas, Felwood, Lordaeron and the other occupied territories
    Pay reparations
    The Horde can keep Mulgore, Durotar and the Barrens - but the Barrens Road will be Alliance territory, and they'll be setting up bases to keep an eye on the Horde.
    Criminals to be handed over for Trial.

    We should see Tirasgaarde rebuilt, and the Alliance Durotar incursion fortifed. Theramore and Northwatch, and the Alliance Barrens forts built up. We should see the Horde removed from territories the Alliance considers theirs. An Alliance embassy in Orgrimmar and an overseer in council.

    In short, the Alliance SHOULD have a say in Horde affairs.

    ***IF*** they win. They won't. Blizzard can't allow that. So there will be some fudge whereby the Allaicne "victory" will not be a victory. The Horde will say sorry and the Alliance will trust them and forgive the atrocities and let them keep the land they have conquered.

    Because, after all, it was Garroshes fault.

    And everyone will be happy.

    EJL
    Sorry to disappoint you, but you just described your own perfect outtake on how it will end, your take on it being 'The alliance should have 80% of wow's gameplay based around them and the horde should be cast as the bad guys", instead of creating balance since the horde has just as many races as the alliance have.

    I don't even know how you can seriously suggest what you wrote. I'm a horde fan, but would never suggest the horde take 60% of the alliances land, thats ridiculous.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  3. #43
    If i understood your post correctly, you're concerned that after Garrosh's fall, the Alliance might take part on what goes on with the Horde.

    Feel free to correct me if im wrong (i haven't kept up with the lore that much), but from i've heard/seen, Vol'jin is being set up as some sort of resistance leader to fight what is considered to be a tyrannical reign of Garrosh.

    The Alliance will also enter Orgrimmar to end Garrosh. In the end, this stinks of Alliance coming forth as the major force responsible for Garrosh's defeat, while Vol'jin undermines Garrosh's Horde from the shadows.

    Considering that scenario, i don't see the problem of the Alliance assuming a posture of "It's either our way or the highway" towards the future horde leadership. Yet given how they're building Varian to be this considerate, benevolent and wiser leader than he was before, i have my doubts that that will be the path taken.

  4. #44
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    23,213
    I think it will come to this


    Alliance: You fuck with us you provoke our Righteous Wrath.

    Horde: Ok got it.

    Not trying to simplfy it, just make it more clear.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Thrall wasn't weak. And now he's prepared to fight his own misguided people for the sake of the rest of the horde. That takes more balls then anyone can manage.
    Any *orc* can manage. Orcs are a weak-minded people. Plenty of other races have risen up against their own upon seeing them go down a dark path. Orcs on the other hand, chug down the demon blood and join in the carnage.

  6. #46
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Any *orc* can manage. Orcs are a weak-minded people. Plenty of other races have risen up against their own upon seeing them go down a dark path. Orcs on the other hand, chug down the demon blood and join in the carnage.
    And thats why Thrall is the better example, because he doesn't have the kind of weaknesses the average orc has. He wasn't ruled by bloodlust or committing foolish acts that dug his people down further into the shit that created.

    I do kind of agree that the average orc is weak in how they think being strong is all that matters, when it shows how weak willed they are in not being able to get past there want for conquest. But many orcs do want to have it better for themselves, to raise families and for the alliance to just leave them in peace.

    A few moronic, bloodthirsty orcs do not speak for the entire race, and your see that when the raid on orgrimmar comes.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  7. #47
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    If the Alliance win, dictating terms to the Hord eis EXACTLY what they shoudl eb doing.

    Disarm.
    Leave Azshara, Ashenvale, Feralas, Felwood, Lordaeron and the other occupied territories
    Pay reparations
    The Horde can keep Mulgore, Durotar and the Barrens - but the Barrens Road will be Alliance territory, and they'll be setting up bases to keep an eye on the Horde.
    Criminals to be handed over for Trial.

    We should see Tirasgaarde rebuilt, and the Alliance Durotar incursion fortifed. Theramore and Northwatch, and the Alliance Barrens forts built up. We should see the Horde removed from territories the Alliance considers theirs. An Alliance embassy in Orgrimmar and an overseer in council.

    In short, the Alliance SHOULD have a say in Horde affairs.

    EJL
    How do you disarm a race that is centered around magic, they don't need weapons to be dangerous as hell and won't tolerate lesser races governing their city.

    The Alliance has not nearly enough manpower to control the occupied territories, and the harsher the punishment for the average citizen the more likely they will rise up in revolt and kill the occupation forces.

    The forsaken won't tolerate the loss of their kingdom and will go down fighting till the end, that conflict could render Lordaeron uninhabitable for centuries, if southshore is any indication.

    The Orcs won't accept any form of human dominance, they would hate them and one day every last citizen will rise to retake their city.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-03 at 05:48 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #48
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,212
    I think everyones forgotten the pandaren in all of this.

    What i think will happen, is at the end, the horde and alliance will be fighting like kiddies in a playground, and thats when the pandaren reveal there secret racial that the players never knew about.

    They grow to 50 feet tall, there skin becomes diamond like, and they can crush an army just by sitting on them.

    The pick up whatever horde and alliance leaders are present and order them "Now you two, kiss and make up!"

    And from then on, the pandaren are set to govern both factions, with each side knowing full well what will happen if they piss the pandaren off again.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And thats why Thrall is the better example, because he doesn't have the kind of weaknesses the average orc has. He wasn't ruled by bloodlust or committing foolish acts that dug his people down further into the shit that created.

    I do kind of agree that the average orc is weak in how they think being strong is all that matters, when it shows how weak willed they are in not being able to get past there want for conquest. But many orcs do want to have it better for themselves, to raise families and for the alliance to just leave them in peace.

    A few moronic, bloodthirsty orcs do not speak for the entire race, and your see that when the raid on orgrimmar comes.
    But the majority of the race is bloodthirsty. Look how readily they rally behind Garrosh without even pause for the things he does and the ideas he puts forward. How quickly they turn on their allies who saw them through thick and thin. Orcs like Thrall are the minority. If the majority of orcs want better for themselves, to live in peace, they wouldn't be screaming into Ashenvale and ruining the livelihoods, families and peace the Night Elves want for themselves in their ancient homeland. Orcs want things but only if they can steal and kill to get it. A hard days work doesn't fit into their mind and THAT is why they NEED oversight.

  10. #50
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    10,220
    Late to the party, but my guess is the most the Alliance will do in regards to getting involved in Horde politics is that the Alliance will strongly encourage the Horde to pick a more moderate Warchief, one who's willing to coexist so the two factions can recover from the Fourth War and focus on the Legion and such.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    5,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The Alliance has not nearly enough manpower to control the occupied territories, and the harsher the punishment for the average citizen the more likely they will rise up in revolt and kill the occupation forces.
    Oh the Alliance will have more man power than the Horde in the end, of that I have no doubt not mention two high their morale would be. But yes harsh punishment only encourages further resentment.

    I do though feel that there needs to be some sort of action occurring with places like Ashenvale, Hillsbrad and Gilneas, as particularly Gilneas and Ashenvale are of the utmost importance to the Alliance.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hanseatic City of Lübeck
    Posts
    8,787
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    But the majority of the race is bloodthirsty. Look how readily they rally behind Garrosh without even pause for the things he does and the ideas he puts forward. How quickly they turn on their allies who saw them through thick and thin. Orcs like Thrall are the minority. If the majority of orcs want better for themselves, to live in peace, they wouldn't be screaming into Ashenvale and ruining the livelihoods, families and peace the Night Elves want for themselves in their ancient homeland. Orcs want things but only if they can steal and kill to get it. A hard days work doesn't fit into their mind and THAT is why they NEED oversight.
    The problem with orcs is you can hardly oversee them, any form of occupation will sooner or later lead to a real revolution with the entire population rising against the occupation force, which will end in a terrible bloodbath. They must be tricked into submission, but that is easier said than done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Oh the Alliance will have more man power than the Horde in the end, of that I have no doubt not mention two high their morale would be. But yes harsh punishment only encourages further resentment.

    I do though feel that there needs to be some sort of action occurring with places like Ashenvale, Hillsbrad and Gilneas, as particularly Gilneas and Ashenvale are of the utmost importance to the Alliance.
    The Alliance hasn't enough manpower if the entire population rises they would be overrun by mobs, they can demand back those territories they truly held, which excludes a lot Talen suggested and they might demand some reparations, but they can't demand much more otherwise it would be war to no end.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2012-11-03 at 05:57 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Sorry to disappoint you, but you just described your own perfect outtake on how it will end, your take on it being 'The alliance should have 80% of wow's gameplay based around them and the horde should be cast as the bad guys", instead of creating balance since the horde has just as many races as the alliance have.

    I don't even know how you can seriously suggest what you wrote. I'm a horde fan, but would never suggest the horde take 60% of the alliances land, thats ridiculous.
    Its what the Alliance should get if they win. As I stated...they won't win. There won't be an all-encompassing overwhelming Alliance victory because the game won't allow it. As a result, there will be some fudge which will get the Horde "off the hook" and forgiven for everythign they have done and as a result, the Alliance won't get what they should.

    Its the difference between what the Alliance would be getting if they were to demand what they should by all rights want, and what they'll get because of the outside restrictions impsoed because this is a gameworld. In the former scenario, the Alliance - contrary to your assertion - should get a big say in how the Horde is run. In the latter, they won't.

    In short - the Alliance SHOULD want to get their lands back, and they should arrange things so that they can keep an eye on the Horde so they can't be assaulted or invaded again. As a gameworld, there will be some factor which will leave the Horde in place and their actions forgiven.

    EJL

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Because the players are part of the story.
    Having the [I]enemy[I] faction occupying your faction is not something Horde players will look kindly upon
    I'm a fervent supporter of my faction (Horde) and I think this would be a very compelling story arc. Would give us something to rally around -- removing the occupiers.

  15. #55
    Scarab Lord Kazomir's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    4,059
    Like they didn't piss on the alliance for the past 5 years...
    Quote Originally Posted by biolink22 View Post
    rogue "glory hole helm"

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Late to the party, but my guess is the most the Alliance will do in regards to getting involved in Horde politics is that the Alliance will strongly encourage the Horde to pick a more moderate Warchief, one who's willing to coexist so the two factions can recover from the Fourth War and focus on the Legion and such.
    Non-Orc races have already shown they can proudly represent their races and demonstrate their strength without being belligerent thieves. I just harken back to Thrall's response to what the Twilight's Hammer did to those Sentinels whilst trying to pretend they were Horde. He only spoke about a violation of the treaty, the brutality of the act, the nature and circumstances behind it were met with cheers by the Orcs. So that is the attitude they hold, saying it was the wrong attitude to have, even for your enemies, would make Thrall look weak according to him. The rest of the Horde doesn't need the Alliance breathing down its neck, the Orcs are the catalyst, the loose cannon and the wild card. Even the Forsaken have more chance to negotiate, they aren't driven by racial superiority and bloodlust.

  17. #57
    I'm a Horde player, and this wouldn't be the "ultimate kill switch" to me (although I doubt it'll happen that way). Some players identify themselves too much with one faction or the other, and can't seem to comprehend the fact that it's a progressing story. If one faction gains the upper hand, don't take it as an offense to all of that faction's players and believe that Blizzard is favoring one side or the other, because a story shouldn't require an even playing field at all times.

    I couldn't imagine anyone who would be angry about such a turn of events reading the Song of Ice and Fire, anyways.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    How do you disarm a race that is centered around magic, they don't need weapons to be dangerous as hell and won't tolerate lesser races governing their city.
    You use other magic users. The BElfs aren't the only ones who use magic.

    The forsaken won't tolerate the loss of their kingdom and will go down fighting till the end, that conflict could render Lordaeron uninhabitable for centuries, if southshore is any indication.
    And is a conflict that is coming anyway. As it is, the forsaken still need the Horde. Especially since their last batch of super weapons have been revealed and appear to be wanting.

    The Orcs won't accept any form of human dominance, they would hate them and one day every last citizen will rise to retake their city.
    If the Alliance was ever in a position to enforce these terms, that would already have been tried and failed. The allaicne, after all, has taken out Garrosh. At that point, it would also depend on the type of occupation and the orcs reaction to it. A "benevolent" one, where the Alliance helped the orcs rebuild...or an oppressive one where the orcs chafe at the humiliations they suffer. Or perhaps admire th strength and order imposed by the Alliance . Or reject the pityoffered by the victors.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2012-11-03 at 07:17 PM.

  19. #59
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    10,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    But the majority of the race is bloodthirsty. Look how readily they rally behind Garrosh without even pause for the things he does and the ideas he puts forward. How quickly they turn on their allies who saw them through thick and thin. Orcs like Thrall are the minority. If the majority of orcs want better for themselves, to live in peace, they wouldn't be screaming into Ashenvale and ruining the livelihoods, families and peace the Night Elves want for themselves in their ancient homeland. Orcs want things but only if they can steal and kill to get it. A hard days work doesn't fit into their mind and THAT is why they NEED oversight.
    Your average orc will adapt to whatever their Warchief decrees. When Thrall took over, shamanism saw a huge revival in orcish culture because Thrall was a shaman and the orcs seem predisposed toward emulating their Warchief. When Garrosh took over and began whitewashing the Old Horde as the 'glory days,' those orcs who weren't around before the internment camps latched onto it and emulated his behavior. It's shown that almost every single Second War vet and a good portion of those who survived Hyjal are strongly opposed to Garrosh, but keep their heads low to avoid the civil war that's on the border of breaking out among the two generations and even between the warriors and those shaman who remain loyal to Thrall's teachings, and this problem has only been exacerbated recently with the revalation that the Kor'kron (its leader in particular) are beating, intimidating, or even killing members of the Horde in orcish territory who speak out against Garrosh, even in discontented muttering.

    That's not to say that I disagree in regards to the orcs having demonstrated that they're not ready to call all the shots in the political world, just that orcish culture isn't cut-and-dry to the point that they're all bloodthirsty sociopaths like the current Warchief. Most of them emulate their Warchief's edicts and behaviors because that's how their culture is (and in some cases, they haven't learned from their parents' cautionary tales).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The problem with orcs is you can hardly oversee them, any form of occupation will sooner or later lead to a real revolution with the entire population rising against the occupation force, which will end in a terrible bloodbath. They must be tricked into submission, but that is easier said than done.
    A revolution if the occupying force is ruthless and cruel. If the occupying force helps them rebuild, guides their hand, lays out what the terms are for living in Azeroth with the natives, things can always move forward.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-03 at 06:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    How do you disarm a race that is centered around magic, they don't need weapons to be dangerous as hell and won't tolerate lesser races governing their city.
    The Mogu used dark magics as a large portion of their arsenal, equally as much as they used weapons and physical strength, the Pandaren countered this. Monk spells and abilities emulate it, to a lesser degree, for sake of balance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •