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  1. #901
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Has a point.

    Buying access isn't a skill in itself. Fighting whatever in the arena is, but not buying/selling tickets.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 05:38 PM ----------



    But players can already do that with older dungeons and raids.

    It'll be new, but why is it more special when there's gold attached to it?

    The only real exclusiveness of this is how much the tickets will cost (it's a gold sink) and how it's handed out.
    That's old content, the Guild provides apropriate lvl 90 mobs to fight. Who are tuned specificly for it. The gold tag is to keep it special. What's the point of it if everyone can just walz in and faceroll their way through it? It's Blizzard's way to cater to the hardcore, even if it's something small.
    Last edited by Vayshan; 2012-11-08 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #902
    Quote Originally Posted by john67 View Post
    Because that doesn't solve the issues. You can't have everybody farm gold and miraculously everyone's able to get in, the invites are still limited... If all these "complainers" farmed more gold all that would happen is the invites would cost more on the BMAH. Most people will still be unable to get in at the start by design. Are you one of those guys who go up to poor people and tell them to just make more money? Something tells me you don't understand the very basic concepts of money.

    Limiting the number of people who can do it so massively is a bad idea. Nobody is going to care enough about this feature to wait 3 months after its release to try it. By then people will have just forgotten about it. I fail to see how it will become a kind of community hub when there will be so few people there at the start, why would people not just use the city or friends chat or private channels, like they do currently?

    Blizzard spends a lot of their forum time saying that their developers like to make content that everyone can use, because otherwise it feels like a waste of time to develop something that only 3% of the population use. Why aren't they following their own philosophy here?

    First off, it'd be dumb to let everyone do it at launch, as you'd have to probably wait hours for your turn to actually fight. Second, there's no progression tied to it. Third, how do you know people will stop doing it? LFR for example, you can one shot everything the first night, yet people still keep using that too.

    Lastly, I wasn't saying everyone is going to get in, I'm saying if you want to get in, consider grinding for it. That's what a lot of this gmae used to be about in the first place lol.

  3. #903
    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    The skill is not in the buying of the ticket, it's in making use of what you get in return for it. You think you're gonne fight Hogger in there? The skill is in killing a boss level mob on your own.
    Exactly, so why should the invites be so difficult to get? If it's going to be so challenging why would it need to be so exclusive. Arguably you could have a situation where 9/10 of those rich kids that win the invites will only be able to kill a few of the bosses. Seems a bit pointless to make this feature then doesn't it?

    Imagine if you needed to purchase weekly heroic raid unlocks on the BMAH or you can't do heroic modes this week. Everyone would be up in arms about it and the top guilds would be leading the charge. The challenge should be in the content itself, not in begging for invites on /2 for days. If the content will be challenging why add such a massive extra road block to it?

    Having said all that there's only so much difficulty they can give these bosses. Ultimately raids are always more complex than 5 mans which are always more complex than solo play. There's just less of a toolset there, not to mention no tank/healer/dps trio.

  4. #904
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john67 View Post
    Exactly, so why should the invites be so difficult to get? If it's going to be so challenging why would it need to be so exclusive. Arguably you could have a situation where 9/10 of those rich kids that win the invites will only be able to kill a few of the bosses. Seems a bit pointless to make this feature then doesn't it?

    Imagine if you needed to purchase weekly heroic raid unlocks on the BMAH or you can't do heroic modes this week. Everyone would be up in arms about it and the top guilds would be leading the charge. The challenge should be in the content itself, not in begging for invites on /2 for days. If the content will be challenging why add such a massive extra road block to it?

    Having said all that there's only so much difficulty they can give these bosses. Ultimately raids are always more complex than 5 mans which are always more complex than solo play. There's just less of a toolset there, not to mention no tank/healer/dps trio.
    The gold tag is to keep it special. What's the point of it if everyone can just walz in and faceroll their way through it? It's Blizzard's way to cater to the hardcore, even if it's something small.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  5. #905
    Selling invites are going to make some people a lot of gold!
    Check out what I'm selling in ESO HERE!

    Interested in joining the MMO-Champion US guild? Whisper me in-game! @greevir

  6. #906
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greevir View Post
    Selling invites are going to make some people a lot of gold!
    ^^

    And it's another goldsink. This game isn't played by casuals only, yet most of it is catered to them. It's good that not everything in this game is up for grabs, why play if there is no goals to achieve?
    Last edited by Vayshan; 2012-11-08 at 10:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  7. #907
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    That's old content, the Guild provides apropriate lvl 90 mobs to fight. Who are tuned specificly for it. The gold tag is to keep it special. What's the point of it if everyone can just walz in and faceroll their way through it? It's Blizzard's way to cater to the hardcore, even if it's something small.
    What's hardcore if it's the same o' same o'?

    Will a healer be able to down these level 90 bosses?

    Or will it be yet another DPS race?

    If it's so exclusive is it exclusive for ALL sub-classes to claim is exclusive? I mean if a DK can waltz through it it's not really that "hardcore" ya know?
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  8. #908
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    Oh how naive. Jokes on you if you think these solo mobs are going to be anything challenging.
    I'll get back to you on that... We'll see who has the last laugh. Something this hard to get into will surely be easy as hell...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  9. #909
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    First off, it'd be dumb to let everyone do it at launch, as you'd have to probably wait hours for your turn to actually fight. Second, there's no progression tied to it. Third, how do you know people will stop doing it? LFR for example, you can one shot everything the first night, yet people still keep using that too.

    Lastly, I wasn't saying everyone is going to get in, I'm saying if you want to get in, consider grinding for it. That's what a lot of this gmae used to be about in the first place lol.
    The design of only 1 person being able to fight at a time is down to blizzard. Obviously it's so that people can spectate but there's nothing stopping them from just making different phases and allowing people to choose to spectate a particular phase. It would take more time but nobody's forcing them to put this feature in at 5.1.

    People do LFR for the rewards mostly. Take away the loot and the badges and see how many people do it. Look at LFD right now. Do many people do it? Maybe a few that find dailys intolerable and still care enough to try to get valor capped. Other than that it's pretty much all new players and alts after gear. How many people queue for fun?

    Grinding gold for these invites isn't a simple grind 300g for flasks or grind 50k gold for a mount. Noone knows how much money they'll need, and the more people grind/stockpile in preparation for the invites the higher the price will be. Ultimately only a certain number of people will be able to buy the invites. It's not like buying a mount where more and more people will get it, nobody is competing to get 1 of 15 rainbow pony mounts. It's a complete mess of a roadblock. If they gave it a flat X gold fee to get in then people would at least know where they stood.

  10. #910
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    What's hardcore if it's the same o' same o'?

    Will a healer be able to down these level 90 bosses?

    Or will it be yet another DPS race?

    If it's so exclusive is it exclusive for ALL sub-classes to claim is exclusive? I mean if a DK can waltz through it it's not really that "hardcore" ya know?
    It's a challenge to see how far you get, no matter what spec. Each healer has a dps spec anyway, and if it's a dps race... I don't know about the enrage timer or how tight it is. They can nerf selfhealing or manaregen in there. And what is same o' same o' about it? Let's say you face off against Kael'thas, just because you can solo him in a lvl 70 tuned raid doesn't mean he's easy when he's tuned to lvl 90.

    Let me ask you this then... the ticket requirement goes. Everybody can come in. You get nothing for your trouble except an e-peen and other people who will drool over it. Then people start to wonder "why the hell was this made?" or "why did they waste time on this when it doesn't give anything and should've spent it on more dungeons?". Would you be happier then? Hasn't this game become dull and retard friendly enough? What's wrong when the hardcore get something for themselves again? Why must everything be for the casuals? You have raidfinder, nerfed normals, nerfed heroics, scenario's, 5man normals, 5man heroics and an easy as hell lvling experience.

    Be honest here, you know very well when everybody can just walk in there, they start to complain in no time about the difficulty. Like with everything in this game. They complain about not getting anything for their trouble. Well now they know they won't get anything for their trouble because they shouldn't even trouble themselves getting in the Brawler's Guild if they expect something shiney or easy.

    Does the casual gain something from the BG? No, there's no loot. Do they loose something for not doing it? No. Does the hardcore gain something from the BG? Yes, respect, a challenge and a bigger e-peen. Do they loose something for not doing it? Only gold.

    Oh and btw... no I'm not hardcore. I do not intend to buy this ticket. But I'm also not so fcking selfish to expect everything to be pussy easy and every single aspect of this game to be made for me.
    Last edited by Vayshan; 2012-11-08 at 11:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  11. #911
    Brewmaster Nigeldruid's Avatar
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    How can people complain about not seeing it instantly - but a few weeks or months later? Why do we need to burn through content and not let things stay unexplored.
    Nothing worth having comes easy. That's why hard content is worth doing, and easy content is a waste of time.

  12. #912
    I shall Enjoy getting my first Server First without having to play this game for 20+hours straight like realm first and raid achievements are.

    Once Tuesday hits, I'll Unload the Gold Cap on this bad boy, if their's more than 1 I'll bid on that too

    Imagine for the first week one player controls their Brawlers Server Good times to had.

    It's funny when people think they have more skill than people who have had heroic's on farm
    You should have farmed more gold too

  13. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Greevir View Post
    Selling invites are going to make some people a lot of gold!
    I'm curious as to what logic led you to this conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by john67 View Post
    The design of only 1 person being able to fight at a time is down to blizzard. Obviously it's so that people can spectate but there's nothing stopping them from just making different phases and allowing people to choose to spectate a particular phase. It would take more time but nobody's forcing them to put this feature in at 5.1.

    People do LFR for the rewards mostly. Take away the loot and the badges and see how many people do it. Look at LFD right now. Do many people do it? Maybe a few that find dailys intolerable and still care enough to try to get valor capped. Other than that it's pretty much all new players and alts after gear. How many people queue for fun?

    Grinding gold for these invites isn't a simple grind 300g for flasks or grind 50k gold for a mount. Noone knows how much money they'll need, and the more people grind/stockpile in preparation for the invites the higher the price will be. Ultimately only a certain number of people will be able to buy the invites. It's not like buying a mount where more and more people will get it, nobody is competing to get 1 of 15 rainbow pony mounts. It's a complete mess of a roadblock. If they gave it a flat X gold fee to get in then people would at least know where they stood.
    This is better in some ways than a flat fee. The vendor mats for a Geosynchronous World Spinner are always going to cost 54k gold. By the end of this expansion a Brawlers Guild invite will have the market value of a Soothsayer's Rune.
    Last edited by Drilnos; 2012-11-08 at 11:18 PM.

  14. #914
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    It's a challenge to see how far you get, no matter what spec. Each healer has a dps spec anyway
    Which DPS spec do you see?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...evyne/advanced

    Yeah, I have a Shockadin spec, but it still a Holy paladin spec and gear.

    So answer me again: can a healer down these level 90 bosses?

    To me it's not very exclusive if a healer can't down the content. That's segregation.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  15. #915
    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    ^^

    And it's another goldsink. This game isn't played by casuals only, yet most of it is catered to them. It's good that not everything in this game is up for grabs, why play if there is no goals to achieve?
    lol, probably its the exact opposite: challenge modes, heroic raids (probably raids altogether) and heck, even long daily grinds are all stuff for hardcores, not for casual.
    this bmah thing introduces a new whole level of retardness
    Last edited by Gniral; 2012-11-08 at 11:22 PM.

  16. #916
    I think the majority of the complaints come from people thinking Brawler's Guild is supposed to be like Proving Grounds. I'm glad it's not and adds its own unique place to the game. I also like it's not instanced. Really the only negative I have to say about Brawler's Guild itself is I wish the rotten fruits were more than an RNG daze. It'd be cooler if fruits lowered target damage and health by 0.1%, can stack 100 times up to 10% reduced damage and health.

    I think there would be far less confusion had Blizzard releasing Brawler's Guild at the same time as Proving Grounds. It is nice having it sooner if it's already done, though. I just know a lot of people are heavily anticipating Proving Grounds (myself included!) so I hope word continues to spread that Brawler's Guild is not it and Proving Grounds are still on the way.

  17. #917
    Bloodsail Admiral Vayshan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniral View Post
    lol, probably its the same opposite: challenge modes, heroic raids (probably raids altogether) and heck, even long daily grinds are all stuff for hardcores, not for casual.
    this bmah thing introduces a new whole level of retardness
    Challenge modes are hardcore. Raids are not or did you miss the huge wave of nerfs in DS? Heroic and normal was nerfed to the ground just so 'everybody' can see it and you can bet it will continue to happen like that. Daillies are not hardcore at all... is there a barrier that prevents you from doing them? Do you need a certain lvl of skill to do daillies? I don't think so. If you're not a hardcore, you have no need to be exalted with those factions in just a few weeks. They're actually for the casuals so they have something to do intill the next patch comes. The BMAH is just a goldsink, for those with more gold than they can spend, wether it's a logical answer to people having too much gold is something I wonder.
    Last edited by Vayshan; 2012-11-08 at 11:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosonia View Post
    Heroics are heroics for a reason.. if you cant do heroics, you cant raid.. its the proper path...
    ...Blizzard has gone the mile and added LFR for those people, but nerfing normal and hc modes is just plain stupid. The Burning Legion didn't get pushed back by lining up a thousand arcane mages spamming AB. It took work work work.

  18. #918
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodair View Post
    I think the majority of the complaints come from people thinking Brawler's Guild is supposed to be like Proving Grounds. I'm glad it's not and adds its own unique place to the game. I also like it's not instanced. Really the only negative I have to say about Brawler's Guild itself is I wish the rotten fruits were more than an RNG daze. It'd be cooler if fruits lowered target damage and health by 0.1%, can stack 100 times up to 10% reduced damage and health.

    I think there would be far less confusion had Blizzard releasing Brawler's Guild at the same time as Proving Grounds. It is nice having it sooner if it's already done, though. I just know a lot of people are heavily anticipating Proving Grounds (myself included!) so I hope word continues to spread that Brawler's Guild is not it and Proving Grounds are still on the way.
    you can't pump up a feature, introducing something that on paper is extremely similar and then qq about ppl not understanding what it's about.
    and honestly, in a patch with only dailies and quests introduced we expected this feature to be something interesting and important... not this waste of development time.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 03:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vayshan View Post
    Challenge modes are hardcore. Raids are not or did you miss the huge wave of nerfs in DS? Heroic and normal was nerfed to the ground just so 'everybody' can see it and you can bet it will continue to happen like that. Daillies are not hardcore at all... is there a barrier that prevents you from doing them? Do you need a certain lvl of skill to do daillies? I don't think so. If you're not a hardcore, you have no need to be exalted with those factions in just a few weeks. They're actually for the casuals so they have something to do intill the next patch comes. The BMAH is just a goldsink, for those with more gold than they can spend.
    raids, including lfr, are run by less than 30% of the population. heroic raids by a minuscule percentage. dailies dont require a lot of skill, but a lot of time. hardcore are the ones with that much time.

  19. #919
    I'm not going to read 46 pages of posts but it sounds like they found a way to gate single player content too?

    Maybe I'm wrong and it will become something like the invites to Gmail back in the old days where everybody had some.

  20. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Don't worry, it'll have some enrage mechanic.

    They never are fair with healers.
    So how is that not being fair to a healer your job is healing not killing. An enrage mechanic shouldn't bother you in any way shape or form. Now if you choose to play the spec incorrectly well that's just your problem not Blizzard's.

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