Thread: Frost dk in pvp

  1. #1

    Frost dk in pvp

    I have considered getting back to pvp on my Death Knight, and I remember really loving being frost in PvP.

    However I did a quick search on 2v2 3v3 5v5 and RBG ladders, and they are practically not existing on the charts, it's only unholy death knights representing our class.

    Is frost really that bad that only unholy is viable?
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  2. #2
    "Is frost really that bad that only unholy is viable?" > Yes frost really that bad.

  3. #3
    Frost can deal very high burst and sustained damage. The problem is that it has virtually no ability to survive burst or force a target swap, unlike virtually every other spec in the game that can force a swap or escape the damage.

  4. #4
    I suppose you can do well in 2s at low rating, going with a healer would be wise to make up for the lack of survivability.

  5. #5
    FrostDK is like RetPally without bubble.

  6. #6
    Then what makes unholy better ?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vholu View Post
    FrostDK is like RetPally without bubble.
    Ret paladins are like frost dks without Sustained dmg and gap closer

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DkWarrior View Post
    Then what makes unholy better ?
    With unholy you can stay in blood presence without loosing pressure you give. Frost in blood presence = you can hardly do any dps. Unholy has a pet that can be used to stun and pressure, frost has nothing.

  9. #9
    One more question, if the target is below 35% hp, do you use soul reaper?
    And will it do it's damage if the target gets healed above 35%?
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  10. #10
    usually you should use it *before enemy drops below %35 hp. like when enemy is at %50 hp and has great necrotics on him and you have gargy.

    "And will it do it's damage if the target gets healed above 35%?"

    what only matters is the explosion moment, if target is below %35 hp when it expires it will do damage, unless it won't.

  11. #11
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    People need to stop acting like Unholy is less squishy than Frost. Both specs have the same defensive tool set, its just that Unholy gains more healing out of Lichborne. That's it.

    Reasons why Frost is worse than Unholy:

    Frost scales terribly with strength thanks to Might of the Frozen Wastes. Therefore, Necrotic Strike will always be shit outside of cool downs and trinket procs. Unholy has Unholy Might passive which gives the gift of stacking strength gems to deal bigger Necrotic Strikes.

    Frost is too dependent on Killing Machine and uptime to deal consistent pressure. Playing Frost is similar to playing a Warrior except you don't have the good mobility/utility that Warriors have and you're at the mercy of slows. Unholy DK's (while they need uptime) can get away with periods of time where you're not on target thanks to the pet and DoT damage.

    Obliterate uses too many runes forcing the spec to be more conservative when using Ice of Chains or other abilities.

    Unholy has a higher parry rating thanks to Unholy Might. Not a big deal but it's still an advantage.

    Blood of the North passive throttles you to a maximum of two death runes where as Unholy and Blood can stack up to 4. Frost can still stack more than 2 necrotic strikes with Plague Leech and Blood Tap, but its more constrained and harder to do. Also, by using Death Runes on Necrotic Strike, you lose opportunities to use KM Obliterates. In other words, Frost is completely strict when it comes to Runes while Unholy is more flexible. Frost is forced to spec Plague Leech because of this.

    Outside of Ice of Chains, every non unholy rune ability generates a death rune for Unholy DK's. Frost DK's have the "honor" of just sitting with two Death Runes while all of their abilities don't generate any Death Runes. This is why Unholy is flexible with runes and Frost is not. Unholy can spam Icy Touch while Frost can't or else it loses a significant portion of its damage.

    Frost can only make Necrotic Strike effective during Pillar of Frost and trinket procs. Otherwise its borderline useless.

    DoT pressure as Frost is useless when you compare it to a Crit reforged Unholy DK thanks to Ebon Plaguebringer. That passive is just a really powerful and it allows Unholy to easily apply DoT's without the need for Outbreak. Frost either has to burn two runes for both plagues or just wait for outbreak.

    Frost DK's suffer against melee targets more than Unholy DK's do. Obliterate has no armor pen and the difference between striking a cloth target and a plate target is like night and day for Frost. Unholy DK's damage while mostly physical, isn't dependent upon one ability for most of it's damage.

    Frost DK's are fucked over more when it comes to enemy player avoidance. KM Obliterates getting parried/dodged will ruin your damage.

    Unholy has a baseline stun and immobilize while Frost has nothing. Frost is forced to spec into Asphyxiate because of this.

    Frost is penalized heavy for using Blood Presence. Unless you plan on using Frost Presence most of the time, Frost is forced to gem and reforge for haste or else it won't have enough resources to deal consistent damage. Anybody who gems Strength or Crit on their Frost DK is either an idiot or just plays Unholy but wants to play Frost without having to regem.

    Unholy pressure damage is better than Frost's. Trinkets/Embroidery/Unholy Frenzy/Gargoyle is much more powerful pressure wise than Pillar/Trinkets/Embroidery. Unholy scales better with strength and isn't dependent on uptime as much as Frost is.

    Frost has a higher cost on Death Coil which means less Lichborne healing.

    Soul Reaper is garbage for Frost when you compare it to Unholy.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    One more question, if the target is below 35% hp, do you use soul reaper?
    And will it do it's damage if the target gets healed above 35%?
    You use it as unholy, but not as frost.

    Necrotic strike is much less useful for frost, and without a high necrotic stack on a target it is likely that they will be healed above 35% before the detonation can occur. AND 2h frost still relies on obliterate for damage, so using either the far weaker NS or SR usually doesn't end up being a good idea.

  13. #13
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    I only use Soul Reaper for Frost right after I use Empower Rune Weapon. Otherwise, its a waste of a Frost Rune.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    People need to stop acting like Unholy is less squishy than Frost. Both specs have the same defensive tool set, its just that Unholy gains more healing out of Lichborne. That's it.

    Frost is penalized heavy for using Blood Presence.

    .
    You refuted yourself. Unholy is lot better than frost survivality-wise, yet even unholy is lack of good defensives. As frost, you cannot stay in blood presence and conversion kills your damage more than it does to unholy. So frost is less squisy than unholy unless you want to do ticklish damage.

  15. #15
    Frost is an enhancement shaman with even less survivability and ways to run.

    Unholy has more surv than frost especially because you can kite while doing damage as unholy with your ghoul as well as deathcoils. As frost you do jackshit while kiting unless you consider 2 howling blasts to be ranged damage.
    Last edited by Keyboard Champion; 2014-08-09 at 08:09 PM.

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