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  1. #181
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
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    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    FC 2793-2016-8218 - Name: Suoma

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewote View Post


    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    The thing is, 5.1 isnt even accurate its more from : so cata is done, sha of what? || so mop is done, sha of what??

    FUcking horriefied I am with where elemental is going. It's already the worst pvp caster. and then a nerf to AS a nerf to totems, a nerf to hybrid healing. Why the fuck do they not give us something in return.

    I'm also pis fucking annoyed they keep giving warrior answers to their questions(as many other classes) but give 0 explanantion on why they nerf shamans. well F U 2
    All we now need is a new fucking stormstrike icon and some more nerfs.

    fucking scumbag shaman designer should be fucking ran over by a BUS (FUCKING PHUN INTENDED)

    /mad "fucking" rant mode off.

    I hope the patch is months away from being released so I can actually get my 2200 rating and farm my gear to shelf him AGAIN and play something else.


    Wishing death on game designers because you disagree with a change to a game is never cool.
    Last edited by Endus; 2012-11-16 at 02:42 PM.

  3. #183
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woopytywoop View Post
    Lol so typical.

    No patch notes as shaman are fine, and then with release candidate on PTR, AS and totems are nerfed.

    blizzard lied about the new talent system.
    It was to avoid cookie cutters and to tune specs more easily independently without affecting the class.
    They lied so badly and if this goes live we'll be dog shit for the rest of the patch in pvp.

    I've seen Zeiyo on AJ also complain,

    I'm sorry dear moderators, but I'm back in my old sceptical pessimistic mood that blizz doesn't give shit about shaman.
    stupid change, lower skill floor and cap on classes like mage, lock, spriest. Increase skill floor of every shaman and also decrease their skill cap, GG.

    yes I'm mad, QQ

    Bear in mind that I'm a guy who invests hours of his week moderating a fansite's forums dedicated to the game (and this class specifically), and maintains an addon package for the game.

    You're too invested in the game, dude. It's just a game. Yes, I agree that this isn't a good change for Shaman, but it's also not worth getting that bent out of shape over. I'm not saying you shouldn't be providing negative feedback to try and get this reverted, or some buffs for DPS shaman (like interrupt/silence immunities and better defenses/burst), just that you shouldn't be getting so furious you're doing the forum equivalent of punching holes in the wall. It's not healthy.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    I'm really starting to dislike resto shamans (only slightly serious) but this is twice now, it appears, that enhance/elemental get knocked because resto is so good. If this is what I think it is and we end up with no compensation it will be torch-and-pitchfork time.
    Seems you are new to elemental then. This has been a recurring theme for years now (purge nerf, windsear nerf, grounding nerf, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I posted in the other thread started for that topic specifically (and I'd suggest that discussion get moved there rather than here, if you just want to discuss that one change), but I agree. The only possible reason I can see for it is Resto. It hurts Elemental far worse than it hurts Resto. I can see the reasoning to make totems count as spells, but I think we need some other kind of protection against interrupts and silences, then; that totems were physical abilities was all we had, up till now, and even that wasn't feeling like nearly enough, IMO, for Elemental.
    Actually it hurts resto more than elemental. Not being able to drop spirit link while silenced is huge. This nerf hurts all specs and I see no valid reason why they ever even considered it. I'm not arguing it hurts elemental, because it does.

    Healers are supposed to survive ANY 1v1. People who are upset they can't kill a healer 1v1 are retarded and don't have the first clue about balance (not saying you believe that, but many do on these forums). Holy Paladin/Resto Druid/Resto Shaman are all about the same for viability currently. Sure each one has it's strengths and weaknesses, but they are all well represented at 2200+. MW and Disc need love that's fore sure, but nerfing AS and totems aren't going to help this.

    Being able to drop totems while silenced was the best part about totems. Totems are already fragile and stationary (unless you take TP). However, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a counter to totems. If they keep taking away the pros associated with totems, then were only left with the cons.

  5. #185
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    Seems you are new to elemental then. This has been a recurring theme for years now (purge nerf, windsear nerf, grounding nerf, etc).
    Relatively new, only been playing shaman since sometime before the unleashed lightning glyph whenever that was. But when they made changes whether it was to shaman or the other classes that I was playing before I understood the changes. Nerf Shadow Priest dispel? Ok, I get why. Nerf Death Strike and that ability we had to freeze people in place (can't for the life of me remember what it was called)? Ok, I get why. Even during times that they didn't provide explanations I still understood why they did it.

    But the nerf to AS and the totems thing seems completely out of left field to me. Changing AS the way they did isn't going to make resto rush out and choose elemental mastery or echo. I mean did it occur to them that maybe they need to make the other talents more appealing to resto? How about making Ancestral Guidance more appealing to resto and elemental in pvp so that if we pick HTT its actually a choice, and we're giving up something else. How about they make Conductivity appealing...like...at all? Give it the Desecrated Ground effect, every few minutes when we use healing rain, while standing in it the shaman is immune to silences/interrupts.

    Some of the tiers are fairly evenly split but other ones not so much. Elemental looks to be primarily choosing Elemental Blast for pvp and pve, So why not make the other talents more appealing to us. Enhancement more often than not picks UF whether its for pvp or pve. Make the others talents an option. If that was their reasoning for the AS nerf, its not going to change anything.

    If I'm being nerfed, I would at least like to able to make sense of it, regardless of whether they provide an explanation or not.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Madboweye View Post
    I rerolled to shaman early TBC and have been reading forums and sites like these for years. I've registered for one reason, sorry for it being OT.

    Endus, you are getting old, predictable and boring, so boring.

    You know shaman, make informative guides and probably moderate this section well. I very much appreciate your efforts in the guides you make, but please, please stop the finger pointing granny style comments on people who are just trying to express their disappointment.

    Please stop posting like you are the all knowing oracle of shamans, some disciple from blizzard advocating the sheer success of shaman when nearly every
    single poster experiences the class differently than you. The never-ending disagreements. It's getting old, so very old. Perhaps take an example to the moderators from blizzard who reply a lot less but are still effective, and by far alot let depressive.

    Perhaps let it go, stick to your guides or perhaps consider another challenge, like Bink on totemspot or Vixsn at LifeInGroup5. A private playground. It's a video game related forum section you moderate, assumable for a small reward if not completely voluntarily. But instead of being at least a bit lightened up, your posts are so cold, nearly depressing. I'm sure there are undertakers out there that have more fun doing their job.
    I'd like to clarify a few things.

    1) Totemspot isn't a "private playground" for me. Sure, I have the Math Shack which is, and my blog on there, but the rest is supposed to be for everyone, not just me.
    2) I agree with the points that Endus makes almost all the time.
    3) Posts that amount to "waaaaaah blizz made a change I don't like waaaah" get a little annoying after a while. Yes, you can be disappointed in something, but unless you can evaluate your response in a constructive, well thought out manner, it's not really helping much.
    4) If I was moderating this forum I'd be a lot meaner. Just sayin'.
    5) I'm not commenting on the totem change because it's primarily a PvP thing, and I'm not interested in PvP
    Sentry Totem: The new community news and advice site!

  7. #187
    Endus, I hope you keep doing what you're doing, as I think you do a great job, moderating these forums. They're maintained at what I consider to be a casual, yet mostly intelligent level. I think the EJ forums can be a bit obnoxious in their level of censure, but I'd hate for these forums to ever devolve into the 4-chan level of idiocy.

  8. #188
    New patch notes:

    "Ancestral Healing and Conductivity no longer benefit twice from increased healing multipliers."

    I guess they mean ancestral guidance in stead of ancestral healing. (ive looked for it on wowhead and it doesn't exist anymore)
    And I guess it's a nerf for resto mastery double dipping in the initial heal and the resulting AoE heal.

    I digested my disappointment already from totem nerf, however it's not a good sign that blizzard is nerfing spells/abilities we don't have anymore in our spellbook :/

    I assume it's just a derp, but to say the least a very clumsy derp after the recent totem nerfs. (tin foil hat conspiracies incoming...)

  9. #189
    wich resto uses those talents especially conductivity healing tide all the way

  10. #190
    GC's latest response, what is it supposed to mean?

    Since your plan is to make heals coming from non heal specs less effective how will you compensate enhancment shaman in pvp?
    It's intended to be a nerf not a balance agnostic change.
    It's obvious the change to pvp power will be a nerf to hybrid dps, but what's this about agnostic balance?

    I any case it doesn't look like we'll get any buffs in return. The destruction of pvp shamans seems to continue, and its perpetrators dont seem to care about complaints.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #191
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    It's obvious the change to pvp power will be a nerf to hybrid dps, but what's this about agnostic balance?

    I any case it doesn't look like we'll get any buffs in return. The destruction of pvp shamans seems to continue, and its perpetrators dont seem to care about complaints.
    He basically means that it's intended to be a nerf, not a neutral change.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    He basically means that it's intended to be a nerf, not a neutral change.
    So enh/ele were'nt just caught in the crossfire, they actually think dps shaman are to strong as they are? Well, I am not surprised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  13. #193
    Brewmaster Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Ele healing is fairly decent for a DPS spec. Its not Spriest levels, but still decent.

    Enhance healing? Well our actual healing spells arent that great. It usually OoMs us in 2 casts and heals for a pidly amount. Our heals come from a glyphed Feral Spirit and smashing Ancestral Guidance which really doesnt apply in this context because the issue is Hybrids healing team mates, which Enhance really cant do effectively.

    So...hopefully, this change doesnt put Enhances self healing in the gutter.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Outcry View Post
    I love enhancement currently. I top dps in my 10 man all the time. I quite happy there are no changes.
    Sorry to say, but ure guild is bad! :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 10:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    Elemental survivability was out of hand, glad they're bringing it in line with other critters.
    Rofl! Thats the best comment ive seen this week
    Main(s): Enha sham and Hunter. Alts: Mage / Every other class, all are 90 (Used for professions only)

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    So enh/ele were'nt just caught in the crossfire, they actually think dps shaman are to strong as they are? Well, I am not surprised.
    I am not surprised either. Enhancement survivability was probably way too high for them, they had to nerf it. (lol)

  16. #196
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    So enh/ele were'nt just caught in the crossfire, they actually think dps shaman are to strong as they are? Well, I am not surprised.
    No, they think hybrid healing is too strong as it is.

    If Enhance/Elemental are only usable in PvP because of that healing, that's a completely separate issue, and shouldn't be addressed by buffing their healing.

    And yes, he has a point. Hybrid healing IS too strong. Even Shaman. You shouldn't be close to as strong as a healer in that regard, able to keep people up through burst, and right now we can.

  17. #197
    Hybrid healing is only too strong when combinations of CDs are used and that has been the case for everyone, not just hybrids. In my opinion, nerfing those abilities is NOT a proper fix, you just stop the combination. I can heal just as well as a healer by popping Ascendance and Ancestral Guidance. This doesn't break any specific mechanic and AG is relatively short so I have no problem with it, but I see why it is "too strong." In PvP, I see no issue as there are plenty of ways to stop either CD. Either way, just don't allow Ascendance and AG to be used together. Give me a forbearance style debuff or make Ascendance put AG on CD, vice/versa.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If Enhance/Elemental are only usable in PvP because of that healing, that's a completely separate issue, and shouldn't be addressed by buffing their healing.

    And yes, he has a point. Hybrid healing IS too strong. Even Shaman. You shouldn't be close to as strong as a healer in that regard, able to keep people up through burst, and right now we can.
    Here's the thing though: Enhance's ability to heal is partly compensating for a lower sv-toolkit than others have. Nerfing heals will mean they would have to buff our others tools (no probs if they did that), which apparantly, they are not planning to.

    And enh healing is in a entirely different drawer than that of dps casters, since our mana pool is so low we're oom if we're hard casting. Plus our heals are only considerable good because of MSW glyph. So we're basically required to stack MSW, most of the time have to safe it for a crucial hex and that is supposed to be to much? I cant imagine that tbh.

    And ele, while having a bigger mana pool, has only hard cast heals. It's not like they have access to hots or shields. It's not like they are particularly strong in terms of kiting either.

    Even if hybrid dps healing overall could be considered as to strong, dps shamans overall were kinda low already, so they could've instead of changing pvp power nerfed the classes were it was a porblem.
    Ele mostly has to worry about surviving itself, and enh cannot spam heals either. If nothing else, they could've at least had this boon to compensate for lacks elsewhere.

    Put shortly, making nerfs across the board is never a good idea, because you are not looking at the different specs affected clearly enough.
    It pains me that some weeks ago, they mentioned that they would be mainly bringing classes to strong back into line, not making all to many balancing changes elsewhere.
    If I was disappointed hearing that, I was even more disappointed that we get changes: Nerfs. A lot of them. Have fun with that. No buffs though. Even rogues, who where mentioned in the same post as super lacking aside from dps shamans, get several buffs (are they enough? I dont know. But something's better than nothing).
    Last edited by Omanley; 2012-11-26 at 04:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  19. #199
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Here's the thing though: Enhance's ability to heal is partly compensating for a lower sv-toolkit than others have. Nerfing heals will mean they would have to buff our others tools (no probs if they did that), which apparantly, they are not planning to.
    No more than every other hybrid's, and the entire point of this nerf is that hybrid survivability was higher than intended.

  20. #200
    By replacing the word hybrid with Shadow Priests everything would make more sense.

    These changes still do not address the issues with Shadow Priests, so many people are sitting here wondering why the hell would they implement them. Shadow Priests healing is OP mainly because:

    1) They have a vast variety of healing spells or types (renew, PoM, PW:S, and flash heal)
    2) They have ridiculous scaling of their heals (even before PvP Power gets added in)
    3) Their heals are a separate school from their damage spells allowing them to heal or DPS when they get locked out of 1 school.

    Add in Shadow Priests insane CC/control, good survivability (with many cd's less than a minute), and good damage; you get why shadow is OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    No more than every other hybrid's, and the entire point of this nerf is that hybrid survivability was higher than intended.
    Not really. Many classes have other tools for survivability that Shaman don't have. Shamans (mainly Elemental PoV) defenses mainly come from LHW and water totems.

    On another note, pures have insane healing nowadays as well. The main difference is that pures can only heal themselves as opposed to hybrids healing anyone.

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