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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    So about moving over to Rift

    Hello everyone. So I have a few questions and a bit of a conundrum. Currently I'm a 5 year World of Warcraft veteran. I have almost every class at max level, I've been in the top guilds on my server, I have over 100 mounts (If you don't play WoW, that's quite a high percentage). Basically what I'm saying here is that there has been an incredible investment into my account, and to leave it behind almost makes me want to vomit.

    However, I'm starting to get to this weird point where I know so much about the game, am so informed, and so skilled and apt at it, that's it's just becoming boring. I don't think I'll ever truly stop playing WoW, but I'm considering subbing to another MMO for a few months just to see what's out there.

    I've been playing the Rift free trial for a couple weeks now, but only like 10-30 minutes at a time. I have a level 4 Mage of some sort, and a level 10 Warrior of some sort. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around how the Sigils work and stuff. Sigils right? Or seals? I dunno, the things you can sub out on your talent trees.

    Anyway, while the game has caught my interest, I'm noticing things that WoW finally got rid of, that the idea of going back to them really bums me out. Recently, WoW did away with a lot of the passives in the game, revamped the traditional Talent Tree style into something way cooler, and removed a lot of the static buffs you have to apply to yourself. It feels like Rift is flooded with buffs I have to keep up, incredibly painstaking talent trees, and it just seems overly complicated.

    That being said, I could get used to it all again if I had to. The thing that really got me focused on thinking about Rift is the player housing in the new expansion. I'm a "creator" type nerd. Stuff like minecraft, or any game that allows building or extended customization, they get my heart rate up for sure. I loooooove that stuff. However, it's not enough to get me to sub on its own.

    My biggest focus in MMO's of late is PvP. How is Rift PvP? I absolutely hated how it felt in SWTOR, as the keys were unresponsive, but I don't feel like Rift has this problem. With PvP being my primary focus (I don't see myself ever raiding again, too burnt out, and especially not going to try to get into it in a game I know little of), would you guys think I'd be happy in Rift?

    I'm the player who A: Likes competitive, balanced PvP. B: Goes ga-ga over things like Player Housing. C: I'm hugely into games that have great cosmetics. As in, I'm a huge mount whore, cool-gear whore, pet whore, etc.

    So far some of the mounts I've seen running around with high levels chillin around the start zones, seem really cool. The more I look into Rift the more I'm turned on by the "feel" of the game itself.

    As I said before, however, without a really strong PvP basis, this other stuff isn't enough to get me to unsub from WoW and sub to Rift. I refuse to pay $30 a month to play both games.

    So I'm basically here looking for someone to give me that reason to push me over the edge. I really want to see what this game is all about, but with my WoW career being as extensive as it is, I'm going to need a really good reason. Hopefully the community here can help me pull them into their world, but I won't go down without a fight :P I want to come over to Rift, I just need the kick in the ass.
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  2. #2
    It feels like Rift is flooded with buffs I have to keep up, incredibly painstaking talent trees, and it just seems overly complicated.
    Unlikely to change. The buffs and talent trees are getting more complex & bloated in the new expansion next month.

    To some degree, Rift is the type of MMO for people that liked TBC style World of Warcraft and xpac1 EQ2.

    Also, you mean souls. Souls are your actual classed in Rift. Warrior/Mage/Cleric/Rogue are archetypes. Whereas you combine 3 distinct souls [classes] in a hybrid class system. Also, will likely not change because that's what the typical Rift player plays the game for-- that particular style of complexity.

    I don't PVP generally. Rift's PVP is not too good though. It's gear based and thus can never be balanced. No MMO with desperate gear as a factor of player vs. player can ever be balanced.

    Rift PVP? No better than WoW PVP, no worse than SWTOR PVP. About the same as any gear based game not designed for PVP exclusively. That is to say, most MMOs.

    It seems like you'd be happier sticking to WOW. As I said before, Rift is sorta for people that like WoW's style of MMO but don't really like WOW itself. If you are happy with the current direction of WOW-- none are finer than Blizzard's mass market powerhouse.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-11-03 at 08:29 PM.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Requiemcliff's Avatar
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    Yeah, reading over what you said, you probably will be more comfortable with WoW.

    Rift has stuff that is fun, but PvP is pretty much the weakest side to it to me (I don't PvP, so I don't mind, and I know some people like it, but the balance has always been a bit wonky as well as Fencers said, it's pretty gear based)

  4. #4
    Fluffy Kitten Azuri's Avatar
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    To add what the other posters say I completely agree with them. Rift PvP can be fun, but it's a huge uphill battle to get BiS gear. I'm actually an ex 7 year WoW player and have all the leet mounts, old HC raiding etc etc and much prefer the complexities involved in Rift talents and PVE. The PVE is just more engaging imo but again that's a personal thing and is different for everyone. It sounds like WoW is the game you should stick with. At the end of the day w/e game you play you need to enjoy it, forcing yourself to play WoW due to time invested in the game doesn't sound like much fun either. I've learned to move on after I'm tired of game or it doesn't cater to my likes and needs, to many people look at MMO as some sort of marriage that requires a painful divorce to leave it to time invested...

    To sum it up I don't think any MMORPG does PvP that well but if it's what you enjoy most then stick with WoW or even maybe GW2, I tried GW2 pvp too but it didn't light any fires under my butt but again I'm not a PVPer. If you want a PVE fix with housing then I'd say Rift but judging by your hesitation just stick with WoW.
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  5. #5
    You could always try the open Beta running from now until Wednesday. http://stormlegion.riftgame.com/en/ Believe you can just make an account and and download the Beta, there are NPC's ingame to boost you to level 50 so you can have a run/play around the higher level zones.

  6. #6
    The Patient Wryn's Avatar
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    WoW-Player with lots ouf mounts, pets, achievements etc. here, too.
    I also still have my WoW account, played even MoP... but somehow I just became tired. It's not that I didn't like WoW or MoP (I really had fun leveling through Pandaria) but it just isn't the "right thing" for me anymore.
    My brother plays it still and enjoys raiding, my husband does his dailies and I've still some very good friends there (I knew that someday all these social networks things wouldn't be soo bad).
    Anyway what I try to say here is, that I still love my nightelf rogue and my draenei shaman... but since last year I enjoy my kelari rogue a bit more.

    The talent system can be a bit overhelming at first, especially if you're not accustomed to it (anymore). But after a few hours of playing you will get into it.
    And it's really great to fulfill so many roles (in WoW my rogue is melee dps only, in Rift I can be Support, Tank, Melee or range DD).

    For PvP... well I was never and will never be good at PvP, but if I do a warfront/battleground I have fun. Especially at Conquest; so many people = nobody will notice my poor performance. ;]
    But yeah, if you look for balanced PvP without to grind your equip first maybe you should try GW2... or just stick with WoW.

    (sorry for my english, to tired to look out for mistakes^^)
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  7. #7
    I was never a major PvPer, but what i can say is that every class in rift has at least 1 soul that can PvP. Where in WoW, areana was the primary way to get BiS PvP gear, it was very, very dependent on the season and class you played. It was always the FoTM classes facerolling to 2200, and the classes that struggled being stuck at 1800.

    In rift, there are no arenas. Conquest is ineresting, and BGs are pretty neat, as there are quite a few to pick from.

    My biggest concern for PvP is the fact that sometimes it seems uncoordinated, and there are alot of moving around fast actions. It can also be very difficult to kill a person sometimes, this includes healers.

    But remember, PvP is not the primary focus of the game. It is focus on amazing PvE content.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    Ok well thanks for the info guys. I guess unless I ever decide to get back into raiding, Rift just isn't for me. Which is a huge bummer because the game seemed to have a lot of things I really liked. But yeah, I'm a PvPer at heart and if there's no Arena and it's just a gear race for balance, that doesn't sound worth 100 dollars worth of sub time, and learning a whole new game. Thanks for the input, and maybe one day I'll see you all in Telara!
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  9. #9
    I had 7 L85s. Over 100 mounts. Blah blah blah. I've never been too big of a PvPer (OMG GW2 SPVP!), but Rift PvE is the top, currently, imo, of any game on the market. GW2's dungeons don't compare to the 'awesome' of Expert Deepstrike Mines (best MMO dungeon, ever, IMO)...heck I can't think of a dungeon in Rift that I straight up dislike. Even CR, though it has some horribly annoying bosses, is pretty decent. Compare it with Grim Batol and a few others in WoW from when I left.

    Lol, Grim Batol. How I still hate you with every bone in my body.

    But yeah, Rift isn't the best PvP game. You want PvP in a game that's not WoW....the GW2 forums are a few places up in the Video Games section!

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  10. #10
    since people have addressed the PVP side of things, let me give you a bit of info about the PVE side of things, namely raiding.

    Speaking as someone who's experienced all Rifts content at the release of the content, i can happily tell you that the difficulty level of rift is far higher than that of wow. Hammerknell Fortress for instance (the first major raid to be released in a patch besides river of souls) was an absolute masterpiece of work. in terms of design, difficulty, layout, artistic style, lore, everything.. the tier was by FAR the best raid tier I've had the pleasure to raid in any game since the old days of sunwell.

    If you want an idea of what rift raiding looks like, youtube a few videos on "akylios" or look up something like "akylios world first" to get an idea. also a good boss to check out might be laethys, as that boss has a few interesting niches and mechanics that punish the raid as a whole.

    still, i cannot help but think this game might not be for you based on what you've said however, but have a look at those videos and see if the PVE side of things can cater to your MMO needs, as they definitely cater to mine.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Tarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowe View Post
    Lol, Grim Batol. How I still hate you with every bone in my body.
    I actually loved that dungeon. All it took was intelligent use of Crowd Control. I was playing on my Death Knight tank at the launch of Cataclysm, I used to check what CC we had as a group, assign everyone a symbol (moon, star, diamond, etc) for their CC target, and it would be flawless. Never failed to clear the dungeon, even in full pugs.

    It was only challenging when people tried to just AoE their way through the way people did at the end of Wrath.

    I would honestly love to see more use of CC in RIFTs dungeons, at least until we outgear them. A healing mob that can't be interrupted, a hard hitting mob that does more damage when surrounded by other enemies so we have to take out his friends first, a mob that uses crowd control, a mob that buffs other enemies, all these could require use of CC which virtually every group has (mages can always go 0pt Dom for Transmogrify). I actually miss the Mind Control spell Priests in WoW had, it was awesome to take control of mobs back in TBC heroics and use their buffs to buff your own party. Giving mages 50% cast speed bonuses or spellpower bonuses was so much fun!
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  12. #12
    I would honestly love to see more use of CC in RIFTs dungeons
    That's how it was before Trion destroyed all the dungeons post-LFG. There were mobs from CCx, DSMx, DDx and APx that were better off CC'd or otherwise suppressed. Esp. before gear overpowered everything.

    It was even true for raids; HK, GP and ROS had very tricky trash pulls with actual mechanics.

    Linear scaling gear will always gut the challenge from static encounters. Mount up, aoe bomb it all and keep moving. Just the direction theme park MMOs go in.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    That's how it was before Trion destroyed all the dungeons post-LFG. There were mobs from CCx, DSMx, DDx and APx that were better off CC'd or otherwise suppressed. Esp. before gear overpowered everything.

    It was even true for raids; HK, GP and ROS had very tricky trash pulls with actual mechanics.

    Linear scaling gear will always gut the challenge from static encounters. Mount up, aoe bomb it all and keep moving. Just the direction theme park MMOs go in.
    You 're quite right there i suppose, but on the other hand, if you don't give to people something back to do something, then there would be no groups to "see the dungeons at their original form" in the first place.
    RDF forces the company, every company if i may add, to make the encounters facerollable, there is no way to reach any kind of cooperation with groups never played together, or if they did nobody remembers about it.

    In my opinion the way LFR works in wow is the optimum way for auto tools.
    Rewards a bit lower than the normal version and that will give people motivation to visit the normal version as well, while easier difficulty. Simple and functional.


    As for dungeons?
    In my opinion dungeons should be the team activity for people that cannot make the commitment to raid.
    You dont need more than an hour to complete it, you don't need to call it for the day and pick it up on a different preassigned day, which will make you heavily depended on people to show up.
    And since the majority can't make such commitment, there should be tiered dungeon content together with tiered raiding content that will keep that majority busy and entertained, and the encounters will be tuned for higher gear. That will ensure that both players will feel rewarded, while there will always will be content for them that is not aoe faceroll.

    To me tier 2 dungeons should have roughly the same rewards with tier one raids and so on.
    I still remember with the fondest of feelings my legendary TBC heroic runs. Blizzard got the first part right back then. Excellent, and very challenging encounters that lasted for those that were not raiding for a good year. But they didnt add to them, once the majority of people was done with them. Just added 1 extra dungeon, when sunwell patch was added to the game. I think something similar happened to rift at launch, but i wasnt around to be sure

    Raiding is the final destination for those able to commit to it.
    Dungeon can be the continuous challenge for people that work and or have children and right now feel either forced to commit more time to rpg mmos that they can afford in order to raid, or feel bored and stale doing the same content even if the rewards scale. (doing the same instances for curencies that provide higher rewards.)

    Just my personal opinion ofc.

  14. #14
    I don't like mult-mode instances. There should be 1 mode. Beat it if you can.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't like mult-mode instances. There should be 1 mode. Beat it if you can.
    Amen!

    I do agree with the point that dungeons are neglected over the course of an expansion though, they should follow the same tiered releases as raids and not just a token one but at the very least 2-3 per tier. For the most part I do agree with how Trion handles PvE content and reward system though so won't moan about it really.
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  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Azuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't like mult-mode instances. There should be 1 mode. Beat it if you can.
    I agree 100%. I would have stuck to WoW or SWTOR if I want to run the same damn raid in multiple difficulty modes. I'm fine with nerfing the previous tier to allow others to experience it but having the current tier all fragmented into difficulty modes takes away that awesome feeling of accomplishment you know when your vent erupts in nerdrage when you down that boss for the first time. This is completely lost when you've done it easy and normal then finally heroic. /yawn
    Last edited by Azuri; 2012-11-05 at 03:39 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Azuri View Post
    I agree 100%. I would have stuck to WoW or SWTOR if I want to run the same damn raid in multiple difficulty modes. I'm fine with nerfing the previous tier to allow others to experience it but having the current tier all fragmented into difficulty modes takes away that awesome feeling of accomplishment you know when your vent erupts in nerdrage when you down that boss for the first time. This is completely lost when you've done it easy and normal then finally heroic. /yawn
    This is a huge factor for why I moved from WoW to Rift. And I don't even raid that much anymore!

    But if I compare my TBC raiding experience to Wrath or Cataclysm, the big issue was that people just started giving up about 6 weeks into a patch. "It will be nerfed before patch 4.2/4.3" or "I'll just get it in the 10 man run" or "already saw this in LFR, this is just a PITA to get now".

    Rift's raiding model involves minimal nerfs over time, and has dedicated instances to 10 and 20 mans. I love this style, as it maintains the difficulty and sense of achievement for actually downing a boss. Guild can progress at their own pace, knowing the carrot won't get moved.

    I'm really loving GW2 right now -- the art direction is fantastic, the world is huge, and the WvWvW is phenomenally fun. But I miss 5 man dungeons and the sense of accomplishment in raiding, and I think Rift has the best raid game available right now.

  18. #18
    Yea, I am okay with retro-active nerfs to content when new tiers are released.

    Just give everyone who walks in to previous tiers an HP and DPS % buff. Toggle-able if you wanna do it old school style. Just like mentoring.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tovarish24 View Post
    Ok well thanks for the info guys. I guess unless I ever decide to get back into raiding, Rift just isn't for me. Which is a huge bummer because the game seemed to have a lot of things I really liked. But yeah, I'm a PvPer at heart and if there's no Arena and it's just a gear race for balance, that doesn't sound worth 100 dollars worth of sub time, and learning a whole new game. Thanks for the input, and maybe one day I'll see you all in Telara!
    I was a long time WoW player, since vanilla, I did not like the direction WoW was going did not like Cata, MoP just made it worse and was my que to leave. I now split my time between Rift and GW2. I think Rifts PVP is more balanced than WoW class wise and GW2 even more so. I enjoy PVEing in Rift mostly and found it easy to slide over to from WoW and PVPing in GW2, it is the best of both worlds as far as I am concerned, something you my want to test yourself.
    Last edited by Cobaltius; 2012-11-05 at 08:58 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I don't like mult-mode instances. There should be 1 mode. Beat it if you can.
    Ehm i don't like them either.
    But try removing the tool once into play. Beat that if you can :P

    I talked from the perspective that RDF is here to stay period.
    If it was my call i would go for tiered content proposal, since i dont believe in the GW2 type of rewards in the long term, both for dungeons and raids.
    But without RDF and auto group tools in general, you can kiss your mmo goodbye :S, and that is sad, but it is also the bitter truth.

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