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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I can adapt to any spec. I HAVE to be doing something wrong.
    You obviously can't.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    Didn't know normal mode mattered.
    op is playing normal mode

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Erik765's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Spokane, WA
    I never said frost was above fire...

    Plus, your version of that post is not the 'average', that's pulled from the top 100 parses.

    Bottom line is if you get irritated by fire's broken mechanics like I do and want a more interesting play-style, and would like to have a little control over burst, there's a perfectly viable alternative.

    idk, maybe its just my raid and our fire mages suck (which they don't, and they out-gear both frost mages), but I'm pretty damn close to them (if not ahead of them on some pulls)...

  4. #24
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Sydney, Australia
    Unless you're playing wow just to be in the top parses I wouldn't worry about fire vs frost. You just have to try both and see which you can play better and enjoy more.

    Playing frost now isn't so bad. I used to play arcane in 4.3 lol.

    I've always tried all the specs and you really just have to play what your good at. I suck at fire and I don't like how it feels so I play frost.

  5. #25
    Fear not! I am here! And I am frost until the bitter, cold end.

    Talk to me if you wish. Find me in-game and I'll add you on realid. The community of frost mages must grow and stay strong!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by spaace View Post
    Didn't know normal mode mattered.
    I'm not sure what the point of your post is. You can switch the tool to Heroic and see the same results.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullarkie View Post
    Here's the average:

    Still higher than frost.

    yeah it's the average of the top 100 you superbrain.
    don't shitpost when you got nothing to say please.

    Infracted - try to play nice with other people.
    Last edited by Shangalar; 2012-11-06 at 10:56 AM.

  8. #28
    So? its higher than frost man
    #1 fire mage US. u mirin'?
    "Aaah ah ah ah ah ah ah yea, f*ck me, ah, f*ck, aah yeah"
    - Jenna Jameson

  9. #29
    Raidbots is aggregate. I'm tired of people presenting raidsbots in the wrong context. It happens in my guild all the time.

    Frost could have an upper level potential of 5% above fire. However, if 80% of frost mages play at 2/3 their maximum potential, the logs will reflect a number much lower than fire if fire mages are playing at a higher potential.

    Raidbots is something you present as a reflection of how well mages are playing their spec at any given time.

    Fire is easy to learn, and in many situations has a yield (if RNG favors you) of an upper limit above frost. Nearly all mages don't have set bonuses yet either, which makes all conclusions very premature. Frost is a bit tougher, and honestly not the spec for a lot of people. There are less of us, and we are still figuring a lot out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 01:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    So? its higher than frost man
    What's up with your sig man?

    29th percentile on Feng Heroic. 69,448 dps as a fire mage isn't remotely good. I did 10k higher than that as frost and I think I did a rubbish job.

  10. #30
    Keep in mind that Raiding is never about how much DPS you do, its about how well you can keep to tactics and do a decent amount of DPS besides that. If DPS is not the main concern in your raid, who cares about the amount of damage done?

    I say this because there seem to be a lot of people convinced that getting near top 100 parses makes you a good player. I'm not saying that it doesnt, but you are missing the point of raiding. Every spec has its ups and downs. For example, Fire sucks in (predictable) burst on for example the Elegon orbs, but it is very good on single target, and multitarget with large health pools. And although Fire is higher up the charts then Arcane on Elegon, if you are progressing on it, Arcane might be the better choice. Yes, you will do less dps overall, but your raid wont wipe because of you werent able to kill your orb because of lack of crits.

    So, basicly, forget about any parses, and forget about what other mages seem to do. It is about what how you feel you can help out your raid best. If you feel safer as Frost then Fire, then go frost, despite what any parse or internethero tells you.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by arynzr View Post
    yeah it's the average of the top 100 you superbrain.
    don't shitpost when you got nothing to say please.
    So use the combo box on the right and choose "All Parses". You get the same result.

    "don't shitpost when you got nothing to say please."

  12. #32
    Moderator Annoying's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Socorro, NM, USA
    I'm un-derailing this thread.

    I want to know how you're getting combustion up on bosses. What raid cooldowns are being used, when you're potting, how you're using AT. You should easily be doing more as fire even with bad RNG.

    I've only seen frost doing more on one fight: Will. That's due to the standard strat of pulling all the mobs into one place and AoE nuking everything down. Having a major AoE cooldown every other rage spawn yields some crazy numbers.

  13. #33
    Dont let it bug you. Play what you want! Ive been raiding as frost and have yet to be beaten by a fire specced mage who was in similar or better gear than me. If you do more damage as frost, play as frost. Once people see the damage meters, they wont even think about questioning you.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    All I see is fire mages, fire fire fire. The other 2 raid grps have mages in my guild both fire. Top 100 parses all fire. Top 100 mages mostly fire.

    Everytime I go fire my dps is worse than my frost dps. I just reforged all to fire, not shown atm in it hasn't updated.

    I am doing the rotation right however someone says I should be getting 30k/tick combustions and im getting NOWHERE near that. 14-17K at best. I don't know what else to do. I tested on gara'jal in LFR and literally stood there and dps'd. Fire was 66.5k and frost was 71.5k. I don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong. I know the rotation inside out, my reforges are correct..

    Someone please help me lol.

    EDIT: May I add the 14-17k combustions are on a dummy with only mage buffs.
    Here's what you need to do.

    First, get at least one (preferably two) Intellect/Spellpower procc trinkets (Elegon's Trinket, DMF Trinket, even the Coren Direbrew will work for a bit). Next, start a fight by evocating and getting ready to throw a Pyroblast (link NT to it). Then, do your rotation as normal but DO NOT use your hot streak if you get one.

    Wait for both HS and one (preferably both) trinket(s) to procc. Now, pop a macro that has the following:

    /use <Insert 10 for Engineering glove enchant, 13/14 for an on-use trinket)
    /cast Presence of Mind
    /cast Alter Time

    Pop your HS Pyro and your PoM Pyro (and if you get lucky, an additional 1-2 pyros from more Hot Streaks). Pop Alter Time and rinse/repeat this line. Combust when out of instant Pyros.


    PS: You do the Alter Time combusts every other combust. When you do a non-Alter Time combust, you use PoM.

    PPS: Feel free to delay Combustion a little bit to line up PoM+HS with a trinket (Add AT on the odd-numbered Combusts)

  15. #35
    After the alter time + pom pyros (4 pyros) what if you have a heating up proc, and's not worth using fireblast to get a 5th pyro is it? cause the ignite goes wayyy down? u wanna ONLY rely on pyro?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tezra View Post
    After the alter time + pom pyros (4 pyros) what if you have a heating up proc, and's not worth using fireblast to get a 5th pyro is it? cause the ignite goes wayyy down? u wanna ONLY rely on pyro?
    Not worth using ANYTHING except Pyro in what I just said. Until you combust, use NOTHING but Pyro (and Alter Time on your AT Combusts)

  17. #37
    Moderator Annoying's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Socorro, NM, USA
    I get heating up + Pyroblast! before starting that chain. One more chance at more pyros.

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Nov 2010
    The Netherlands
    You're simply better at playing frost than you are at playing fire.
    Twitter - Armory -

    Owner of the #1 mage website, Altered time.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    What?! 10-15k dps?! You are crazy! The difference between frost and fire is SO little infact I have BEATEN EVERY FIRE MAGE I have gone against as frost AND some have had better gear! And I know some of them we're good players. You are crazy.
    Come at me bro I'll leave you leave behind .

    As far as I know fire is best spec atm.

  20. #40
    There is so little useful information in this thread, I think Dragon9870 was the only *on-topic* and helpful post.

    As he implies by explaining how to use PoM combustion correctly, your dps is almost certainly lower as fire because you are not doing this. Fire does consistantly beat frost, it does have an RNG swing but its average is still above that of frost in gameplay for the average mage. Fire also has the advantage of doing *significantly* higher damage on 3 targets, no dps loss on target switching, higher dps (via multi LB) on spread out targets. Frankly I expect a nerf to fire, it is too good for how easy it is to play (which by the way aside from learning how to combustion is monkey-level easy).

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