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  1. #1

    Everyone's fire but frost does more for me

    All I see is fire mages, fire fire fire. The other 2 raid grps have mages in my guild both fire. Top 100 parses all fire. Top 100 mages mostly fire.

    Everytime I go fire my dps is worse than my frost dps. I just reforged all to fire, not shown atm in battle.net it hasn't updated.

    I am doing the rotation right however someone says I should be getting 30k/tick combustions and im getting NOWHERE near that. 14-17K at best. I don't know what else to do. I tested on gara'jal in LFR and literally stood there and dps'd. Fire was 66.5k and frost was 71.5k. I don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong. I know the rotation inside out, my reforges are correct..

    Someone please help me lol.

    EDIT: May I add the 14-17k combustions are on a dummy with only mage buffs.

  2. #2
    Epic! OneSent's Avatar
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    Play to your strengths. Fire may be universally better, but if you are doing less DPS, you are doing less DPS.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Tierbook's Avatar
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    well as far as frost goes just did sha and frost mage pulled over 100k damage did a dungeon last night and a frostie pulled 120k average with 150k on first boss
    You're a fine example of how gamer communities have become infested with endlessly whining and bitching, arrogant, opinionated, unreasonable, all the way immature, completely delusional, tendentially psychotic, insulting individuals one really doesn't want to be linked with. And playing with you guys is certainly no fun at all. I don't know where this kind of folks spawns from. Must be a nest somewhere ...
    A fine summarization of the community

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by OneSent View Post
    Play to your strengths. Fire may be universally better, but if you are doing less DPS, you are doing less DPS.

    I can adapt to any spec. I HAVE to be doing something wrong.

  5. #5
    If all you see is fire mages you clearly haven't been reading these forums.
    If you want help, logs are going to be pretty essential.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Stick with frost, the specs are really close atm so if you like frost more now is the time.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    If all you see is fire mages you clearly haven't been reading these forums.
    If you want help, logs are going to be pretty essential.
    Im just going to stay frost, imo frost is better just due to how fire has a much higher rng factor.

    Why are all the top parses like all fire? It's annoying.

    I also have a question regarding frost..Should I stack all haste and use frozen armor or throw in some crit? Because I find I do better with stacking haste and using molten armor.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Im just going to stay frost, imo frost is better just due to how fire has a much higher rng factor.

    Why are all the top parses like all fire? It's annoying.

    I also have a question regarding frost..Should I stack all haste and use frozen armor or throw in some crit? Because I find I do better with stacking haste and using molten armor.
    To your first question, that is because Fire when favored by the RNG gods can put outrageous numbers. So the parses show mages that not only are good, but had good rng too.

    To your second question, I read too that going for crit soft cap can be better for Frost. This is not reflected on sims though, and it is anecdotal, but intuitively it feels it could be true. It may however be on a case by case depending on your gear and playstyle. I would recommend trying both and seeing for yourself.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Erik765's Avatar
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    Why are all the top parses like all fire? It's annoying.
    Because everyone has a lucky RNG streak or a super-high combustion just at the right time at some point in their lifetime...

    Those are what end up in parses and it's by no means the average any of those mages are doing.

    If you want consistent, good numbers, stay frost. It's way more fun anyway.

  10. #10
    yes fire is doing more damage than frost. (on most encounters) no fire doesnt have any rng. ~50% crit isnt rng.

    use addons to track crits so you know when to use inferno blast. stack all cooldowns and try to use it while trinkets/enchants/whateverbuffyoumayhave is up.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    I'm the same but it's Arcane that's giving better numbers and more enjoyment.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    To your first question, that is because Fire when favored by the RNG gods can put outrageous numbers. So the parses show mages that not only are good, but had good rng too.

    To your second question, I read too that going for crit soft cap can be better for Frost. This is not reflected on sims though, and it is anecdotal, but intuitively it feels it could be true. It may however be on a case by case depending on your gear and playstyle. I would recommend trying both and seeing for yourself.
    Surprisingly I find that a balance of the two mixes very well. My haste in raid is like 16-17% using molten armor. And my crit is nearing 23%. I feel like I am doing more with the balance of it.

    One thing is fire has the potential to do more, because of rng or w/e. However fire also has the potential to do less when you need it the most. That 1% wipe, oops fire mage had bad rng. I don't think a few 100 dps loss if that's what it is really matters when it comes to being consistent.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Everyone's fire but frost does more for me.
    Did it ever occurred to you that you are not doing everything perfect in your rotation as you may think?
    don't listen to all dumb ppl bragging with their 100k dps frost on idk what boss or random dungeon dps with the 15% buff and all other kind of sh*t.
    just take 25 heroic kills and you can see plain and simple that frost is behind fire on every single fight , and by a lot.
    tip: for a good dps attempt you need to get a nice burst at the start, proc your combustion when you have all your other procs (jade spirit, trinkets and co.) , on average you should get a 40k normal tics combustion if you time at least 2 pyros , on lucky you can get 60k or higher.

  14. #14
    Can I see your armory

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    That 1% wipe, oops fire mage had bad rng. I don't think a few 100 dps loss if that's what it is really matters when it comes to being consistent.
    the difference is way bigger than a few 100dps. and what is the rng everyone is talking about? even if you get less crits than normal right before a combustion. youll lose like 5k dps and still be 10-15kdps ahead of frost.
    imo frost got more rng because of the stupid ffb procs.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ralikonik View Post
    the difference is way bigger than a few 100dps. and what is the rng everyone is talking about? even if you get less crits than normal right before a combustion. youll lose like 5k dps and still be 10-15kdps ahead of frost.
    imo frost got more rng because of the stupid ffb procs.

    What?! 10-15k dps?! You are crazy! The difference between frost and fire is SO little infact I have BEATEN EVERY FIRE MAGE I have gone against as frost AND some have had better gear! And I know some of them we're good players. You are crazy.


    The sims all show frost ahead, so if fire is ahead it is by very little. And ffb procs aren't rng related when you use frost bomb..They're 100% at the end. VERY predictable. You aren't playing frost correctly.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire gunhound45's Avatar
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    Post some logs if you want any remotely helpful advice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloodanis View Post
    Damn casuals and their vending machines. Back in my day, We had to go all the way from Orgrimmar to Desolace to pick up chips from the store. we had to do an extensive attunement quest to get into the store and we had to assemble 39 other people to fight the many other trash mobs, i mean trash food, to get to the chip isle. Oh and most of us couldn't even afford our epic car mount to drive there, we had to settle for our 60% bike mounts.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Erik765's Avatar
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    no fire doesnt have any rng.
    How is your main damage buff varying from 0 to 100k depending on very little that you have any direct control of whatsoever, not rng?

    FFB procs are 100% predictable as others have said.

    You wanna bring up procs? How about your inferno blast getting munched 0.01 seconds before your fb finishes casting and you blow it. same with your combustion. your ignite gets munched (yes, this still happens) and you blow your combustion at a 0 because you see 60k until 0.01 sec before your fb finishes (as your spamming combust)...

    bottom line, if you want consistency and procs that actually work mechanically and don't frustrate the hell out of you (and twice as many buttons/much more fun rotation), go frost.

    (yes, I know my sig and avatar are not fitting here)...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik765 View Post
    Because everyone has a lucky RNG streak or a super-high combustion just at the right time at some point in their lifetime...

    Those are what end up in parses and it's by no means the average any of those mages are doing.

    If you want consistent, good numbers, stay frost. It's way more fun anyway.
    Here's the average:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Feng_The_...100/14/30/avg/

    Still higher than frost.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullarkie View Post
    Here's the average:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Feng_The_...100/14/30/avg/

    Still higher than frost.
    Didn't know normal mode mattered.
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