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  1. #21
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Stay stacked up, dps boss, ???, win?
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  2. #22
    It's sad what World of Warcraft has come to. Instead of trying to improve and learn how to play better you go to forums and cry for nerfs.

  3. #23
    He's certainly right that Stone Guard is harder than feng, gara'jal and spirit kings. Specially spirit kings. In normal that should have been the first encounter in the instance.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    As much as I want to be harsh to you I can't so I'll be vague, Even the most casual of any player of any type can do stone guard for god sakes It's the very first encounter. It's like the Halfus of this expansion

    Either you need to improve your raid or don't cry for nerfs

    Sorry.
    Prettymuch this.

    "if you have a giant orange beam between players, stack on each other".

    It's not the most difficult mechanic without voice. With any form of TS / Vent it's trivial.

    Just try it a few more times, if you STILL can't handle it then ask yourself - why can't your team stack on each other? I'm not trying to be snarky with you there, seriously - ask people why they're struggling to cope with it.

    Also be aware that you take bugger all damage from the bosses ability when that boss is overloading, so you can break them easily in jasper overload (provided you group up again before it finishes), or clear the cobalt mines in the cobalt overload to make grouping easier.

    " Jasper damage lowered by a large amount" makes it sound like you're spending lots of time apart with chains and NOT during jasper overload, which means the fight isn't hard - you're just not following the tactics properly, that doesn't mean something needs nerfed, it means you're doing it wrong.

    To take high damage from jasper chains you need to

    a) not be grouping up quickly enough - that's your fault for being so spread out and / or slow to react
    b) trying to break the chains outside of a jasper overload - again, not what you're supposed to do

  5. #25
    Brewmaster HavelTheRock's Avatar
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    We don't even break chains, it's easier to just have them run together for the fight than worry about spreading at the right time.

  6. #26
    This mechanic already got nerfed, and to everyone knee-jerk responding to this, Stone Guard probably is the hardest fight in 10 with Elegon (maybe.) on normal.
    Atleast that's how I felt from our alt raid.

  7. #27
    Pit Lord Azgraal's Avatar
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    Im really sad for you then. I don't want to be an idiot, but you might aswell give up if you can's get past stone guard each week, no mather the combo, then you'll have absolutely no chance at Elegon.
    I thought that LFR existed for people like you who couldnt raid on a schedule...You either get better as a group or i'm afraid you'd better wait for 5.2 to come back to normal modes

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 02:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maleficia View Post
    We don't even break chains, it's easier to just have them run together for the fight than worry about spreading at the right time.
    My ground never breaks chains (at least intentionally). It's actually fun to piss off our melee friends when us ranged get chained to them. But it is more than doable.

  8. #28
    For once I'm going to say LFR is aimed towards your raid.
    I see so many people whining about the bosses being hard and blame it on gear.
    No, in this case it's probably player skill ruining it for your raid. Not saying you're bad as a player, but your raid must be.
    Tell them to step their game up if they want to progress in normal raids.

    Only other option is to bring 4 healers, which makes the fight a lot easier. Question is, can you beat the enrage timer?

  9. #29
    Warchief
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snore View Post
    It's sad what World of Warcraft has come to. Instead of trying to improve and learn how to play better you go to forums and cry for nerfs.
    It also doesn't help when blizzard caters to this attitude as well by nerfing raids after it's been out for several months.

  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Weeeeell

    Friday just gone I helped a RL friend out with their new guild - was the first time they had ever raided together and for 4 or 5 of them it was their first raid ever.

    And for this level of player, stone guard is far, far too hard. In fact, everything in MSV is. There is no middle groyund between LFR and MSV normal for these players. Obviously it's not a very common occurence these days, but it does go to show.

    The issue is once again that the rest of the game before they set foot into MSV for the first time does not require you to do any of the things you need to clear MSV. It's ezmode questing, ezmode instances, ezmodeHC's, ezmodeLFR and then wtfmyfaceMSV. Wow at this point has millions of experienced players who wouldn't think twice about the mechanics - but it's a lot to learn for completely new people right out of the gate. Without me talking them through it they'd have quit a lot sooner than they did (and they quit with no kill but some good progress after about an hour and a half, fyi.)

    Whatever you might say about the morchoks of this world, they do at least let very new and very casual players see at least some success in their first raiding experiences. First boss of any new raid tier should be a tank and spank gimme for this if no other reason.
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  11. #31
    Ok, I see some people missread my post or sth.

    I am NOT saying Stone Guard is a hard boss. Even the combo I mention, Jasper/Ame/Cobalt, is not hard.

    I am saying this boss, with the combo mentioned, is significally harder than 3 next bosses. I am talking about the difficulty difference between non-jasper combos, and jasper combos.

    Again, the boss doesn't get HARD. The boss suddenly gets ANNOYING. Nothing too complicated for a organised group.

    And the problem I see refers mostly to pugs that would run this raid. Imagine a normal pug going into MV? No-jasper combo makes probably an easy 4-boss kill, if people have eyes and such. You don't even need any voice communication I guess. With Jasper combo the entrance to raiding gets much more nasty.

    And no, this boss is not Halion. With Halion, there were many combinations, but no "God damn, not this one" combination. The one with knockback could cause trouble - only could. Stone Guard goes from "tank and spank, stay away form shit" to much higher level, where good coordination is really needed.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    1) Yesterday we 1shooted this encounter with Cobalt/Ame/Jade combo - it was easier than Sha of Anger. I'm talking about how much the difficulty changes with the addition of chains
    2) We aren't aiming for world 1st, just for some fun. Yep, those guilds still exist.
    As mentioned they hot fixed it. On heroic you have to light up tiles on the floor while having a debuff that ticks for damage and while being chained to someone which means they also have the debuff and also have to run tiles. The chain mechanic is not hard, just stack on the other chained person until you can break the chains. Your guildies just need to play smarter.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 02:33 PM ----------



    You keep mentioning pugs and them having a problem with this encounter. Isn't that what LFR is for, I mean if you can't handle the first boss on regular then maybe LFR is more your skill set. Stop asking for nerfs to regular content when there is an even easier difficulty. Some groups just aren't meant to raid together.
    Last edited by lockedout; 2012-11-04 at 02:34 PM.
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  13. #33
    I dont think Stone Guards need nerfing but I think Feng would have been a much more apropriate entrance encounter tham Guards, hes just way easier and imo has a much shorter learning curve. Both are easy tough but Guards is an encounter that needs a fair bit of coordination specialy on the tank side, the kind of encounter youd spect to see further down the tier not as the entrance encounter.

    Imo even Garajal is easier tham Guards considering you have the numbers ot kill him before enrage.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Snore View Post
    It's sad what World of Warcraft has come to. Instead of trying to improve and learn how to play better you go to forums and cry for nerfs.
    ...and then literally everyone who replies tells you that you're a moron.
    Don't try and pretend that's a trend, Snore.

  15. #35
    The Patient Ysoph's Avatar
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    Well, Stone Guards are not THAT simple as Morchok was. Unfortunately, this is not an intention of Blizzard but consequence of gear/stats we have in a beginning of the patch. Anyway, no matter how easy the fight is, if you have nobody in your group who cares enough to read tacs before the fight, you will be failing.

    Its so simple. Have linked peeps stacked till Jasper overloads - than spread so chains will break with minimum damage.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Whatever you might say about the morchoks of this world, they do at least let very new and very casual players see at least some success in their first raiding experiences. First boss of any new raid tier should be a tank and spank gimme for this if no other reason.
    This is what they made LFR for, people who can't succeed at normal raid difficulty. Now you want them to nerf regular bosses until they are LFR difficulty? Whats the fucking point? People expect to kill every boss the first day they reach it. I remember wiping in TK and SSC for WEEKS on the same boss. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS, no nerfs, no hotfixes, kill the boss or you CANNOT progress. Guess what, when we finally got our vials and into BT it was such a feeling of accomplishment, one I wil never feel in this game again not even for a world first HM kill.
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  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    This is what they made LFR for, people who can't succeed at normal raid difficulty.
    These are people who ar willing to put some time in on normal difficulty but who have a mixture of zero or little experience.
    Now you want them to nerf regular bosses until they are LFR difficulty? Whats the fucking point? People expect to kill every boss the first day they reach it.
    I said it would be incredibly handy to get people interested in raiding if the first thing they ever tried wasn't over complicated. If stone guard was boss 3 and not boss 1 MSV would be pretty similar - but the barrier to entry would be lower for new guys and gals.

    Just by changing the order of the bosses and doing nothing else, peoples first ever raiding experience could be massively improved. I don't see what your argument against this is.
    I remember wiping in TK and SSC for WEEKS on the same boss. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEKS, no nerfs, no hotfixes, kill the boss or you CANNOT progress. Guess what, when we finally got our vials and into BT it was such a feeling of accomplishment, one I wil never feel in this game again not even for a world first HM kill.
    Yeah, but there is something unusual about you in this. Most normal people will not and do not operate on such principles, they try stuff for a while then stop doing it when there is no chance of success. I prefer blizzard to make games for the average person, not the outliers like youself who have the patience of job and more time than the speaking clock to throw at the game.
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  18. #38
    Epic! Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    This mechanic already got nerfed, and to everyone knee-jerk responding to this, Stone Guard probably is the hardest fight in 10 with Elegon (maybe.) on normal.
    Atleast that's how I felt from our alt raid.
    No.. Not at all. Difficulty is generally accepted as being something like thus: Spirit kings> Stone Guard> Feng> Garajal> Will of the Emp> Elegon. Stone guards is complete piss in comparison to Will. It's just such a mindblowingly easy fight if you have decent tanks. Seriously, even with Cobalt/Jasper/Anythird, my guild has one shot it on heroic two weeks in a row.
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  19. #39
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    The only fight atm that needs nerfing is the normal Elegon encounter which feels like an heroic version for healers in 10man...

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    To begin with, I'm a part of a "casual guild" - we don't raid every week (tho we try to), we sometimes need to pug a player, or pick an undergeared guildie. We are no pros, thats for sure. But we constatntly try to progress through MV.

    Back to the topic. Stone Guard needs nerfing - and fast. I'm talking about one aspect of the fight - Jasper Chains. This skill is WAY harder to deal with than the rest of them, with Jade and Amethyst being trivial, and Cobalt only slightly harder. Jasper+Cobalt combo is a progress stopper. If this combo occurs, the very 1st boss you face in MV is harder than both Feng and Gara'jal, and most likely Spirit Kings - had only like 2 tries on those, don't really know.

    Blizzard should do something about this, with Jasper damage lowered by a large amount or only 1 chain existing at the time. It's kinda sad when our guild, thinking about nest weeks raid, rather thinks how to get past Jasper/Cobalt/Amethyst combo then about last encounters.

    And just for statistics - we had around 10 wipes on Feng and 10 wipes on Gara'jal before we downed them, and over 60 before we downed Stone Guard for the 1st time. And it was pure luck.
    Not sure if trolling or not?

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