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  1. #261
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Get yourself 9 completely random people and pop in there. Make sure the other 9 are brand new to it. Don't watch any videos or use anything but a vague pass over the dungeon journal.

    Oh, and be wanting to chill after a week at work, and have a few drinks inside you before setting out.

    It'll take you half an hour before the tanks get it, and then you'll have to work on everything else. Not entertaining.
    The fuck is wrong with you?- go hit up lfr if you have the patience, will to learn / improve n' stamina of a 3 month old baby crying for a bottle!

  2. #262
    Don't you understand, Banzhe? He's the voice of the casuals that can't get out of blue circles or move together when DBM tells you to.

  3. #263
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Good for you? I know that you're the spokesman for the average player, common man, etc.

    I'm gonna have to ask for some proof for this "90% fail rate." That seems outrageous for an easy boss.
    Check your tracking sites. Most guilds wiped on it over and over before getting it down.

    Then they should get better. The mechanics aren't hard.
    I hear this a lot around here, it's bilge.

    People in general don't "get better" - they never have and they never will, they stop playing. And then blizzard nerf the shit out of everything to bring them back.

    If you like raiding as it has been, you should be all in favour of gradual increases in difficulty and decent design.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    The fuck is wrong with you?- go hit up lfr if you have the patience, will to learn / improve n' stamina of a 3 month old baby crying for a bottle!
    The fuck is wrong with you?

    Why not read the thread and read the posts before responding? I personally haven't got an issue with stone guards.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Check your tracking sites. Most guilds wiped on it over and over before getting it down.
    You're not really familiar with the concept of burden of proof, are you? If you make a claim, then you're expected to provide evidence for said claim. Telling me to check "my tracking sites" doesn't count.

    I hear this a lot around here, it's bilge.

    People in general don't "get better" - they never have and they never will, they stop playing. And then blizzard nerf the shit out of everything to bring them back.
    They should get better, but they don't always do so because they're used to Blizzard giving them hand-outs and welfare.

    [quote]If you like raiding as it has been, you should be all in favour of gradual increases in difficulty and decent design.[COLOR="red"]

    Stone Guard is fine. The only design problems I have thus far with raid bosses are Galleon's loot is way too good for a world boss and RNG should not be such a heavy factor in some Heroic bosses (ex: Spirit Kings).

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Which, after cataclysm is probably a LOT of guilds.

    Stone guard is a great 4th boss. It's a fine 5th boss. It's a wonderful end boss, even.

    It's a truly terrible intro to a raiding tier. Remember, this might be someones first ever raiding experience and having it be a cockblock is poor design.

    what would be a good first boss? This is a fight that dosnt require a ton of dps. it dosnt require a ton of healing, it dosnt require a ton of awareness. only thing i would say it might be pretty complicated on is the tanks taunting at the right time.

    this fight is by NO means a "end boss". honestly though, this is probably the easiest fight in the teir (most weeks, spiritbinder can shift to easier some weeks)

  6. #266
    OP -> you will get no love here asking for nerfs. It's almost like you came here as a masochist and tossed out "need nerfs" just to see how many people would jump all over you. If you want nerfs, or blizzard to hear you - you need to go to their forums and post directly your issues with the fight. Here, people are so pro - they will only scream and call you casual and "I wantz my free epicz nau!" - they don't care about your issues with the game - and more likely see you as the enemy.

  7. #267
    Field Marshal Xiaya's Avatar
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    I'm guessing Blood Queen was too hard as well. Seems that chain mechanic was even more detrimental to the raid when you failed at it.

  8. #268
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    You're not really familiar with the concept of burden of proof, are you? If you make a claim, then you're expected to provide evidence for said claim. Telling me to check "my tracking sites" doesn't count.
    Oh I am familiar with the burden of proof, and I gave you that proof.

    ofc, it requires soem legwork on your part, but that's just a way of testing whether you actually give a shit or if you just want to score points. Guess I'll find out next respionse when you will either have done the testing or you try and get me to do it for you again.


    They should get better, but they don't always do so because they're used to Blizzard giving them hand-outs and welfare.
    No. Blizzard didn't hand out "welfare" for many years. During that time, did people "get better"? No. They quit.

    The sort of person who when faced with a cockblock in their entertainment gets all gritty and determined is pretty rare. Most normal people expect their entertainment to be well, entertaining.
    [quote]
    If you like raiding as it has been, you should be all in favour of gradual increases in difficulty and decent design.[COLOR="red"]

    Stone Guard is fine. The only design problems I have thus far with raid bosses are Galleon's loot is way too good for a world boss and RNG should not be such a heavy factor in some Heroic bosses (ex: Spirit Kings).
    Heroic bosses are irrelvent, really. Same as hardcore raiders, they simply don't exist in enough numbers to matter to wow.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 05:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiaya View Post
    I'm guessing Blood Queen was too hard as well. Seems that chain mechanic was even more detrimental to the raid when you failed at it.
    Blood queen was the umpteenth boss in ICC (and the order was optional after a month or two), long before you got there in ICC there was tank and spank bonestorm boss, the lootship etc before her.

    Stuff the not so good and not so great could get down and enjoy a bit of success with. Much better design.
    http://secretgl.wordpress.com/

    Guild Blog for <Debonair> EU, Zenedar.

  9. #269
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Get yourself 9 completely random people and pop in there. Make sure the other 9 are brand new to it. Don't watch any videos or use anything but a vague pass over the dungeon journal.

    Oh, and be wanting to chill after a week at work, and have a few drinks inside you before setting out.

    It'll take you half an hour before the tanks get it, and then you'll have to work on everything else. Not entertaining.
    Well that's your PERSONAL definition of pleasure and entertainment. Maybe there are about 10million other people actually enjoying the game... whaaaat?
    yes... maybe YOU should just stop playing if you don't find it entertaining. To those that do find it entertaining goes the spoils. But no I like to have everything on a silver platter handed and spoonfed into my mouth. Yet I create useless threads with no incentives other than bashing on something thats tuned perfectly fine.

    Sorry sir, you almost had me there but no.

  10. #270
    Oh I am familiar with the burden of proof, and I gave you that proof.

    ofc, it requires soem legwork on your part, but that's just a way of testing whether you actually give a shit or if you just want to score points. Guess I'll find out next respionse when you will either have done the testing or you try and get me to do it for you again.
    Still not how burden of proof works; not my fault you're too lazy to provide the evidence. Typical though that a casual is lazy and doesn't want to put in any effort.

    The sort of person who when faced with a cockblock in their entertainment gets all gritty and determined is pretty rare. Most normal people expect their entertainment to be well, entertaining.
    No, they expect WoW to be a faceroll game where all raids are 35% DS, mechanics are few and far in between, and you get shiny epics. I'd rather not see the quality of the game decline to appease the mouth-breathers.

    Heroic bosses are irrelvent, really. Same as hardcore raiders, they simply don't exist in enough numbers to matter to wow.
    Irrelevant to mediocre players such as yourself that still haven't cleared MSV Normal, maybe. To good players, yes they matter.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Still not how burden of proof works; not my fault you're too lazy to provide the evidence. Typical though that a casual is lazy and doesn't want to put in any effort.
    Ad hominem.
    No, they expect WoW to be a faceroll game where all raids are 35% DS, mechanics are few and far in between, and you get shiny epics. I'd rather not see the quality of the game decline to appease the mouth-breathers.
    Hyperbole.

    Irrelevant to mediocre players such as yourself that still haven't cleared MSV Normal, maybe. To good players, yes they matter.
    And back to an ad hominem.

    Quote Originally Posted by narzhul
    Well that's your PERSONAL definition of pleasure and entertainment. Maybe there are about 10million other people actually enjoying the game... whaaaat?
    yes... maybe YOU should just stop playing if you don't find it entertaining. To those that do find it entertaining goes the spoils. But no I like to have everything on a silver platter handed and spoonfed into my mouth. Yet I create useless threads with no incentives other than bashing on something thats tuned perfectly fine.

    Sorry sir, you almost had me there but no.
    Do you honestly think 10 million players raid? Also they are not asking for everything to be spoofed, they are pointing out that the difficulty scale is off for MSV. Which honestly is not perfect.

  12. #272
    The Lightbringer Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdryad View Post
    Still not how burden of proof works; not my fault you're too lazy to provide the evidence. Typical though that a casual is lazy and doesn't want to put in any effort.
    Never said it was. Did say that your willingness to follow the lead given is an indication of your mindset. You accued me of being lazy, so I made a test to see if you yourself had any worth ethic. And you filed that test.

    Feel free to go check the tracking sites though.
    No, they expect WoW to be a faceroll game where all raids are 35% DS, mechanics are few and far in between, and you get shiny epics. I'd rather not see the quality of the game decline to appease the mouth-breathers.
    That's exactly what wow should be like. You are doing the gaming equivalent of walking into Mcdonalds and demanding the finest steak.

    Wow is a mass market MMO, it should be tuned for that mass market. Hardcore monkeys have heroic modes to be all uber in, no need for normals to be so badly thought out.


    Irrelevant to mediocre players such as yourself that still haven't cleared MSV Normal, maybe. To good players, yes they matter.
    Most players are mediocre. Good design is for your actual customers.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    Do you honestly think 10 million players raid?
    Well, wowprogress.com doesn't track China, but they do track NA, EU and Korea. Adding up the raid sizes of the guilds that have downed the first boss in MV normal, you get around 315,000. This is a small fraction of even the NA population, never mind NA + EU + KR.

    Normal mode raids, as currently designed, are being used by only a small fraction of the player base. Either Blizzard intends most people to stick in LFR (or not raid at all) or they are going to have to change something. There is likely a progressive nerf in store for this tier; we'll see if anyone cares. I'm suspecting the response to it will be not what they had hoped for.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  14. #274
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    All night to learn? The ONLY new mechanic is picking up crystals (based on the pertifying dog) and then running over ground tiles. Seemed pretty simple to me at least.
    Hes talking about normal....

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