Guild Member comments

[FireKenesis]

I have a friend who is the GL of a small guild, who recently told me about a question one of his veteran members came to him with, thought I'd get people's thoughts. It's a small 10man guild, cleared normal MV and just entering HOF, they still clear MV normal each week to gear up members etc.

A long time member who is a warlock recently had a private conversation with the GL, about a new member who is on trial. This new member is also a warlock. Apparently this new guy whispered the veteran just before a raid, basically saying that because he hasnt farmed for pvp cloth bracers or cloak and is still using 463 heroic ones, it shows he doesn't give a crap about his character and essentially said he shouldnt be invited to raids because of it. The veteran has never pvp'd before and it is not something he is particularly interested in, but his response was basically to say, he does care, a great deal about his character but is currently saving VP to purchase wrists after he has replaced some other items. Ironically enough the first night in HOF, bracers dropped of the first boss which the veteran happily accepted.

But the trial kept whispering him for a good five mins complaining that his attitude is bad, doesnt matter if he doesnt like pvp, he should farm for the conquest points. It really bothered the veteran enough to ask the GL if his raiding spot is in question and if he had any complaints about his performance. The warlocks performance is very good, 100% raid attendance, loyal, provides flasks food buffs etc, and has spammed heroics and LFR and dailies for gear upgrades etc.

Now I know some pvp gear is viable for pve, but what are your thoughts on this. My view is you pay your monthly fee for wow, play the game how you want, rather than someone dictating to you, what you should and should not do.

Thoughts........

[Vordie]

Well, maybe in a hardcore and semi-hardcore raiding guild it would be optimal for him to farm for CP, too, but I don't really see a problem with him waiting for VP bracers in a small guild like that.

He could've asked the Veteran why he didn't use the CP bracers nicely, but his attitude seems to be way out of line.

[Art3x]

It seems like the trial is either trying to supplant the veteran or is just a bit of a prick. If the trial is that worried about it and that "hardcore" then they should trial for a H quality guild.

[Porcell]

We had the same sort of conversation in my guild the first week when we couldn't meet enrage on Elegon 25m, so we did a character audit and called out people on their gear. One of the things that came up was PvP gear and it was suggested that people use that avenue to obtain gear.

That said, I refused. There is so much to do (between dailies and heroics) that I was NOT going to go PvP also, especially since I hate PvP. I did everything else to make my gear as good as possible without PvP Arena gear. It was more the people who still had 450 blues, or didn't have their enchants or reforges, that needed to shape up.

But the trial questioning the veteran... that's a good way to end your trial early. It's fine to bring it up, but not to berate the current member in the manner that was described in the OP.

[Wildtree]

Answer from GL standpoint....

I would get them both into a private chat in vent, and clear the situation.

Generally I would lean towards my long time veteran, and the trial would be on the edge of getting kicked out of the guild, unless he could redeem himself properly in said vent conversation.

[Rivellana]

My thoughts?

The trial member needs to go look for a more "hardcore" guild because that is not the one for him. He should not be dictating his own "rules", especially to an established member of the guild.

Personally if it were my guild I'd talk to the GM about removing the trial member from the guild immediately.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

It seems like the trial is either trying to supplant the veteran or is just a bit of a prick. If the trial is that worried about it and that "hardcore" then they should trial for a H quality guild.

Sounds like it as well. A tad too ambitious to the point of trying to disrupt an already established raid team. And the veteran has a good record to boot.

If he's just waiting on one piece of gear, and considering the RNG in the game, with that record it shouldn't be much of a problem.

You want a stable raid team where the egos are checked. If this guy questioning the veteran's gear to this extent on a trial basis, he maybe even worse when accepted (or leave in a huff for "greener pastures", putting the team in a spot). Have to watch out for what's best for the team, too.

ADDED: Also, the trial warlock may also feel he has to show he knowledgeable and feels compelled to push that he does. You may want to chat with him, to gauge that this is the problem and explain to him your raid team's goals. Trials tend to be more nervous because they are the new guy, so don't just write him off yet. But another incident is a red flag he will get under the skin of the established team, as he'll push and push and at their expense.

[Nicola]

If you are on EU, on alliance side, tell him to do battlegrounds, otherwise let him play his game the way he likes it....
(Need more clueless PvE noobs in bg on alliance side so it's easier for my horde chars muahaha)

[clevin]

Answer from GL standpoint....

I would get them both into a private chat in vent, and clear the situation.

Generally I would lean towards my long time veteran, and the trial would be on the edge of getting kicked out of the guild, unless he could redeem himself properly in said vent conversation.

Answer from a former officer and raid leader... I'd ask the trial lock if the conversation happened pretty much as stated. If so, I'd gkick them. It's not any other player's place to whisper others in the guild and tell them they suck, don't care about their toon, etc. It's especially not the place of a trial member. Team chemistry is far more important than someone like that. If I'd had an issue with the veteran locks performance they'd already hav known about it.

[Tziva]

It's about expectations. If the guild or raid leader does not ask those things of its members -- and I don't think they should unless you're a cutting edge progression guild pushing for firsts -- the veteran warlock did absolutely nothing wrong. Maybe the bracers are a small upgrade, but by how much? If he doesn't like PvP and he's expecting to replace them soon and he has an item that is almost as good, that's going to be fine for the vast majority of players and is certainly adequate for clearing normal mode Vaults.

The trial, on the other hand, not only overstepped his bounds socially but showed he is probably not a good fit for the guild. If this is his attitude as just a trial, I would be very concerned as the guild leader about long-term problems resulting from him not being on the same page as the rest of the guild. Is he going to hassle my raid members for not race changing to the best racials for their spec? Is he going to cause drama if someone's reforges aren't mathematically ideal, or if they put a cheaper enchant on a piece they expect to replace shortly? His approach isn't wrong, but it doesn't sound like it's a good fit for your guild. Obviously he is looking for a guild that is a lot more extreme in their min/maxing.

[dokilar]

i would rather take someone who's loyal, shows up to the raids 100% of the time, provides other people with flasks, food buffs etc. and is just an overall more friendly person over someone whos only concerned about gear and their personal performance

edit : being an officer of a guild, and leading a majority of the guilds group activites throughout wotlk and cata, i would have a discussion with the trial person and see what the deal was. if he came off as a dick id tell him to find a new guild. we never tolerate toxicity in our guild

[Tsimp]

I would have kicked the trial player, someone with that attitude will not change and needs to be removed from the guild as quickly as possible before the attitude spreads.

[Tradewind]

As a GL, for almost 6 years now, fuck the trial. They're just going to cause problems long term with that kind of attitude. There's a difference between being helpful or actually trying to improve those around you and just being a snotty little turd.

[Alta87]

Seeing as people fell in love with the Veteran of the story, ill go the other way.

Obviously, this Veteran warlock is jealous because the new warlock obviously is more "dedicated" to raiding and will pull out bigger numbers on recount, not to mention he would be rolling for the same gear. This is classic sabotage by the veteran trying to ruin it for the new kid, he will get him kicked so he doesent look back in DPS meters, doesent have to share raidspots or drops.

Tada =P

[Lethey Alexandros]

I love guild drama, in this situation as aGL I would have told the trial to take a hike. I have my own situation currently that I am dealing with. Back in Cata in the middle of DS, some of my vet. raiders told me they would be takeing a LoA due to content stagnation but would be returning for MoP and to continue raiding. We talked about it and agreed at that point that they would not lose their raider satus since they told me of their plans. My whole raid team has returned but the filler recruits who picked up their slots are now giving me an earful despite haveing told them it was temporary. I am missing one person from my raid team so natrually I am keeping the one alternate who filled in her spot and this is the point of the issue. Why does one get to stay when the other 4 have to hand their spot over to the returning raiders.

[Tradewind]

Seeing as people fell in love with the Veteran of the story, ill go the other way.

Obviously, this Veteran warlock is jealous because the new warlock obviously is more "dedicated" to raiding and will pull out bigger numbers on recount, not to mention he would be rolling for the same gear. This is classic sabotage by the veteran trying to ruin it for the new kid, he will get him kicked so he doesent look back in DPS meters, doesent have to share raidspots or drops.

Tada =P

Know how I know you're not a guild leader? hehe

[chunkycarl]

Seems a shitty attitude from the trial
if someone came to me in my guild with that they wouldn't get far. The veteran warlock is in every right to stick with what he has. he had heroic level items (463) which is sufficient for raiding, he has a long term plan to farm the VP ones as well so he is considering his gear. theres no "need" to farm pvp gear unless you really are in a tight situation (i haven't used a single piece and im currently 480 ILevel- most of that farmed off my own back outside of normal raids)
i'm not saying pvp gear is bad, However i completly agree if peoples preference is to avoid it

[Eadoin]

Another Guild Master chiming in here: Trail's a craphead. We set a general guideline of "Do whatever you need to do be raid ready" and then cross-checked everyone's character to make sure they had 463 Heroic Blues. Not, PvP epics. We're not casual either but we didn't feel the need to force people on top of Dailies/VP/Raiding to also grind Conquest.

It'd be a different situation if you had a member with greens and you saw him farming pet battles, that's unacceptable, but 463 Blues are perfectly fine as stop-gap items until RNG or VP comes your way.

You won't be running into enrage issues because someone has a 463 PvE item instead of a PvP item, even if PvP Power/Resilience don't affect the ilvl in some cases the better itemized 463 is still better.

[yjmark]

As an Officer, I would definitely give the trial the "boot". That kind of attitude is not tolerated in my guild.

Now, if the trial would have been nice about suggestions for improvements, then it would have been a different story.

[Drilnos]

Guild unity is going to get a raid a great deal further than a pair of bracers. The trial as described is a threat to that unity, and putting him into a raid is like willingly eating poison. It doesn't matter how good he is. It doesn't even matter if he apologizes. Part of being a trial is proving that you can get along with and work together with the existing team, and this guy failed that test in a fairly extreme way. If I was the guild leader, as soon as I got the full accounting of the facts the guy would have been dropped like a hot rock.