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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk Zethras's Avatar
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    There arn't physically enough blood elves to make their own faction. Their population is dangerously low ever since Arthas and the Scourge paraded their way through Silvermoon to get to the sunwell.
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  2. #42
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    There arn't physically enough blood elves to make their own faction.
    Well, if they fattened up themselves...

    But seriously, they have the numbers enough to be a major presence in Dalaran and Outland. They carry on as a faction in the Horde. There's enough of them (too many actually when WotLK came). They just too vain to fight for too long. Bon bons and manicures are more important, let alone that is the affairs of the "dirty hordes".

    Remember BEFs are High elves, not Drows or Woodland elves (which High elves have a disgust for, too).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Well, if they fattened up themselves...

    But seriously, they have the numbers enough to be a major presence in Dalaran and Outland. They carry on as a faction in the Horde. There's enough of them (too many actually when WotLK came). They just too vain to fight for too long. Bon bons and manicures are more important, let alone that is the affairs of the "dirty hordes".

    Remember BEFs are High elves, not Drows or Woodland elves (which High elves have a disgust for, too).
    Stop living in D&D.

  4. #44
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xEvangelionx View Post
    SPOILERS:


    Where? There will be a feud going on between the Sunreavers and the Kirin Tor to which Jaina wants the Horde's blood for destroying Theramore (She stated this in recent voice-acting footage), I pretty much doubt they will write them lore to be integrated into the Alliance. They bombed her home, it's not something to sweep under the carpet haha.
    Garrosh gets on Theron's bad side when he throws the blood elves to the wolves in 5.1, not bothering to warn them about hostile presences and mogu ambushes. It gets worse when Lor'themar has to quite plainly spell out why Garrosh's new role models (the mogu) are not the sort of characters the Horde should be emulating, to which Garrosh essentially says, "Did the Scourge beat all of the vigor out of you? Shut up."

    Anyway, when Garrosh orders Theron to toy around with some new artifact he's found, it goes badly wrong and releases a sha on Silvermoon. The players stop it, but Theron has enough of Garrosh's shit and considers looking at "old Alliances" if this continues.

    Theron and Varian start talking about just that, but that's when Jaina begins her purge of the Sunreavers and Rommath/the players attack Dalaran to save them, ending that option too. Varian has a fit and says that Jaina's pushed the blood elves back into the arms of the Horde by attacking their people, when he was about to negotiate Quel'Thalas back into the Alliance.

    Lor'themar says pretty much the same back in Silvermoon, goes on a massive rant about Garrosh and the Alliance, and decides to take matters into his own hands.

    It's basically seeding the blood elves as members of the Horde rebellion, in other words -- putting them firmly at odds with both factions until the better option comes along.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    They're too busy having manicures and getting their hair done.

    These are elves. If it's not served on silver platters and look good, they really don't care. They are vain creatures, and very intelligent creatures...but the wisdom quota is about as thin as their bodies.
    You know, all three of your posts on this thread up to now would be a bit right... if this was 2007.

    However, seeing as it is 2012, and the end of the Burning Crusade is well behind us, what is it that gives you trouble in realising that the blood elves were redeemed by that very ending? The Legion was pushed back, the Sunwell restored, the blood elves realised that they were wrong to trust Kael'Thas and imprison M'uru. The end.

    And even before those events the blood elves were not what you are describing. I guess the reason they went to Icecrown in WarCraft III was that it had really good hair saloons. And of course, they named themselves blood elves because it was the trendy thing to do at the time, not say, because they were the very few survivors of a near-genocide. A non-existent near-genocide which instead of utterly destroying them, as it would have most other races, it actually made them more determined to survive and prosper than ever before. And we are talking about the one race that set sail into the unknown from Kalimdor to find a new home. Yeah, that one too is the sign of a race that only takes what is handed to them.

    The only blood elves that adhere to your description of them are members of the king's court of sorts, who spoilt by thousand of years of riches and arcane magic manipulation think of themselves as above all other races, and did not even admit their race's dire situation after the Scourge's onslaught in Quel'Thalas, like Lord Saltheril in Eversong Woods. Most of everyone else that you meet in the game, is a determined, hard-working individual, who whether they do something ethically right or wrong, give their all for their and their race's survival.

    The only reason why Silvermoon is still such a mess in the game is because it would take a lot of work for Blizzard to change the entire zone after the end of the Burning Crusade. Theoretically, Qual'Thalas is getting back on its feet right now, although there are still problems such as the remaining Wretched, the Amani trolls and the Scourge.

    Honestly, for all the blood elves have achieved in the game, and for all that they have suffered, whether by their own doing, treachery, or the way things developed, it is bewildering why some people still view them as vain, lazy, power-hungry biggots. All those quests in Eversong Woods and the Ghostlands, the ending of the Burning Crusade, the short stories, and still some people can't get it through their heads...

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    I think what the Blood Elves need most is a true leader, Im not saying Theron isnt, hes a powerful lore character, but he himself isnt the kind of character that wants to run a race.

    I dont really know who could take over for him but the Sunstriders are all kind of dead unless KT had a child which I highly doubt, theres a mention of 1 called Eldin Sunstrider but I dont think hes even a character in game, maybe he could be some prodigal king like Varian, I duno.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I think what the Blood Elves need most is a true leader, Im not saying Theron isnt, hes a powerful lore character, but he himself isnt the kind of character that wants to run a race.

    I dont really know who could take over for him but the Sunstriders are all kind of dead unless KT had a child which I highly doubt, theres a mention of 1 called Eldin Sunstrider but I dont think hes even a character in game, maybe he could be some prodigal king like Varian, I duno.
    Isn't it though that the unwilling heroes are the best ones? There is a tragic aspect to Theron's movement from ranger to governor, from warrior to (mostly) politician. A tragic aspect that if used correctly can create so much good story-material. And the fact that he deems himself unworthy of being a leader, this humbleness, makes him so much more of a good match for the role. I think that all he needs is more development, since it seems the "unwilling hero" state in which he was introduced in Burning Crusade was supposed to be only temporary, and through time replaced with a more confident approach to his role, only the writers never got to it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    The Horde side of Dalaran was because of blood elves. The Horde part of the Argent Tournament was blood elves.
    In Cataclysm the blood elves got an archeology society of sorts.

    What did the draenei get since BC?
    In Wrath they had a quest where they were turned down for help, the end.
    In Cataclysm we saw their leader visit a town to say goodbye to a dying friend, the end..
    True, but I still say they've been pretty neglected. It's been what 5 years since TBC and we still have little more than hints as to how things are going with the sunwell and the magic addiction, the deadscar etc.

    But I agree Draenei have got it worse, don't get me started on them. They're my favourite race and there's reams of stuff blizzard could've done with them, but no, they're aliens and can't have any involvement outside the Burning Legion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:15 PM ----------

    Although to be honest the guys who have it worst are the Gnomes. The entirety of their lore pretty much has revolved around failing to take a single city time and time again. They're almost entirely a joke race and unlike the other neglected races I can't even think of any serious lore they could have.

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    You know, all three of your posts on this thread up to now would be a bit right... if this was 2007.

    However, seeing as it is 2012, and the end of the Burning Crusade is well behind us, what is it that gives you trouble in realising that the blood elves were redeemed by that very ending?
    Because High elves can't change what they are, they are what they are and shall always be.

    It's like asking a Dwarf to give up his beard and become a teeotoler "just because" it's 2012 and a Blizz writer said, "Hmmm, Dwarves need a shave and drank too much!"

    Blood elves are Blizzard's version of corrupted High elves. They have the same characteristics of High elves, from their vanity to especially their distain for any but their own kind. The ultimate snobs.

    Now you can get away with all that with Blizzard's purely created races like the Draenai, as they don't -- you got it -- follow any D&D framework.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  10. #50
    I'm still waiting to see where the Draenei all vanished after Shattrath.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Merp View Post
    It's just part of the whole trend that Blizzard has taken since Cataclysm to make everything revolve around Humans and Orcs. Pretty annoying and, above all, uninspired.
    In all fairness, the next patch will provide some action and lore for to the Blood Elves and other races. And they recently recognized on Twitter that they neglected the Blood Elves lately. Small good signs, but definitely still too little for Blood Elves and all other non-Orc or non-Human races...
    It's also pretty odd since Blood Elves are more played than Orcs. One could say that it shows how much Blizzard cares about their players view, but that's debatable of course...
    It's not odd at all. Warcraft is about Orcs vs Humans.

  12. #52
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    It's more to do with the fact Garrosh has stated in the past he believes Blood Elves to be too weak. Do you not recall him expelling Blood Elf guards from Orgrimmar?

    In 5.1, it shows that Lor'themar is actually considering leaving the Horde, now that Tyrande and Varian appear to have forgiven the Blood Elves for their betrayal.
    I think you are confusing races with factions.

    Also I can't recall there ever being any Blood Elf Guards in Ogr. in the first place.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because High elves can't change what they are, they are what they are and shall always be.

    It's like asking a Dwarf to give up his beard and become a teeotoler "just because" it's 2012 and a Blizz writer said, "Hmmm, Dwarves need a shave and drank too much!"

    Blood elves are Blizzard's version of corrupted High elves. They have the same characteristics of High elves, from their vanity to especially their distain for any but their own kind. The ultimate snobs.

    Now you can get away with all that with Blizzard's purely created races like the Draenai, as they don't -- you got it -- follow any D&D framework.
    Enough is enough. Dude.

    Get into your fat skull that blizzards elves, no matter how close you THINK they are to D&D, are in fact nowhere near D&D because it's two different damn things. Lore evolves and at some point they are just too different for you to draw any parallels what so ever.

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Enough is enough. Dude.

    Get into your fat skull that blizzards elves, no matter how close you THINK they are to D&D, are in fact nowhere near D&D because it's two different damn things. Lore evolves and at some point they are just too different for you to draw any parallels what so ever.
    And also understand: where did you think Blizzard got their ideas and racial backgrounds from of established races?

    Certainly not from their writers.

    ALL roads lead back to Roman. That Roman is called D&D.

    WoW isn't that special to rewrite history.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    If there's treachery and sorcery involved, turn and look around. An elf is involved somewhere.
    So Kel'thuzad was an elf? Quite a retcon

  16. #56
    Yeah how they play a bigger part.

  17. #57
    Dreadlord Oogzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appel View Post
    Well not to be a dick realy, but ur wrong.

    This topic has been beaten to death, allaince screwed over the elves in couple of ways.. now the horde does the same with garrosh. So realy the elves should be the ones who distrust the alliance and horde. Btw didn't the alliance tried a fail attempt on making friendship?..
    Garrosh has treated everyone except Orcs like shit and even then, if an Orc has friends that aren't Orcs, he doesn't like them either. The Blood Elves were fine with Thrall. Nobody is fine with Garrosh.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 08:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    So Kel'thuzad was an elf? Quite a retcon
    If you look back far enough, it was the Elve's fault. The Burning Legion wouldn't have been summoned to Azeroth, nor would the continent have been split in two, if it wasn't for the elves and their meddling of magic far beyond their control and knowledge.

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Oogzy View Post
    If you look back far enough, it was the Elve's fault. The Burning Legion wouldn't have been summoned to Azeroth, nor would the continent have been split in two, if it wasn't for the elves and their meddling of magic far beyond their control and knowledge.
    If you look back far enough it was the Eredar's fault for falling for Sargeras promises of untold power and filling the ranks of the Burning Legion with the most powerful magic wielders in the universe. If you look farther back it was Sargeras' fault for lacking the will power of his fellow Titan's to continue seeing their mission through, blah blah blah blah.

    Sorry but 1000 years ago isn't a pass for blame with anyone in the real world, 10000 years ago isn't a pass for blame on Azeroth. And it wasn't beyond their control or knowledge. Azshara and the Highborne knew exactly what they were doing, and were happily ready to sacrifice the rest of the Night Elves and world to the Legion to gain the power they craved. You speak as if what they did was an accident lol...

    Nevertheless, what matters most is what happens in the relatively small time frame of the WoW timeline and your playable characters life and when it comes to "sorcery and treachery" the superstars of WoW, the humans and the orcs, are hogging the limelight for that aspect with lovely characters like Gul'dan and Kel'thuzad. THe story of Elven past serves as the "ignored lesson of history" once more repeating itself. The Blood Elves faux pas was sucking the life out of creatures like a vampire and eventually sucking the fel out of demons to sate their arcane addiction. This was done in desperation, not out of some vain superiority complex.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Akarui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because High elves can't change what they are, they are what they are and shall always be.

    It's like asking a Dwarf to give up his beard and become a teeotoler "just because" it's 2012 and a Blizz writer said, "Hmmm, Dwarves need a shave and drank too much!"

    Blood elves are Blizzard's version of corrupted High elves. They have the same characteristics of High elves, from their vanity to especially their distain for any but their own kind. The ultimate snobs.

    Now you can get away with all that with Blizzard's purely created races like the Draenai, as they don't -- you got it -- follow any D&D framework.
    THIS ISN'T D&D!
    Get over it please, you're not even contributing any useful facts other than spouting D&D time and again. Blizzard can do what ever they want with their creations, there isn't some rule that means all elves have to be something. You are either trolling, ignorant or just have a hard on for D&D and don't like it when something diverts from its stereotypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by LuminousAether View Post
    It's not odd at all. Warcraft is about Orcs vs Humans.
    You're right Warcraft is about Orcs and Humans.
    However World of Warcraft is about the world the game is set in, no specific race or character.
    Last edited by Akarui; 2012-11-05 at 07:06 PM.
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  20. #60
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    They're too busy having manicures and getting their hair done.

    These are elves. If it's not served on silver platters and look good, they really don't care. They are vain creatures, and very intelligent creatures...but the wisdom quota is about as thin as their bodies.
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