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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Aica View Post
    Seriously, man. Go test it in-game for yourself. Dot duration decreases with haste. At a haste breakpoint, the dot's duration resets. The only thing you get out of a haste breakpoint is two spare GCDs per dot cast.
    So what you are saying that a dot ticking more times per minute isn't a dps increase. Where do these people come from...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Burchoid View Post
    Dude, are you trolling? Because it sure is starting to seem like it... unless you are getting no gear with haste as a base stat, your statement is quite inaccurate. I was able to reach the haste breakpoint in less-than-ideal 480ish gear without sacrificing stats as you suggest. Are you confused about stat weights perhaps?
    I agree there Burchoid. I just hit it this week when I (finally) got the Elegon trinket. I have three pieces of gear without base haste, and I'm gemming primarily reckless with a couple energized, my ilvl is only 481.....that sure sounds like full BiS heroic....lmao.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    So what you are saying that a dot ticking more times per minute isn't a dps increase. Where do these people come from...
    Point of clarification, silverhatred, Aica isn't the one who is saying that (he is in your camp/agreement with you). His post was specifically aimed at the breakpoint being a large DPS increase. The haste as a gradual DPS increase outside of the breakpoints still stands.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 01:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    When it comes to the accuracy of SimulationCraft, I believe the WoW devs over the sim devs. It has been stated by blue posters on numerous occasions that the sim is not accurate. Ghostcrawler is especially fond of pointing this out.
    What GC is saying is that you can't run a Patchwerk sim and expect the results to be valid on Blade Lord. He's absolutely right in this regard. That doesn't mean that looking at general use cases, I.E. a two-target heavy movement-style fight, invalidates those results when applied to similar fights.

  4. #44
    Mechagnome Veiled's Avatar
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    I have literally NEVER seen WoW developers say that Simcraft is not accurate in the way you are referencing. Twintop is right in his last post about what has actually been said about the whole Simcraft thing. They've also said that people have put too much faith in Simcraft over Blizzard's internal numbers. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THEY'VE SAID SIMCRAFT IS NOT ACCURATE! You are taking what Ghostcrawler has said and twisting it around to your liking. This is another case of you, Konway, presenting an argument with your wall-of-text posts that make absolutely no sense and without a single thing to back it up.

    I can also personally assure you that no serious theorycrafter in the priest community has used a single Simcraft result to determine stat weights. In fact, there have been hundreds of Sims used to do so and the fact that you argue that makes you look ignorant. If you'd done a little research before spouting off at the mouth, you'd know that. Instead, you'd rather come here and provide misinformation to the community.

    You speak a lot about theorycrafting but all you've provided to the theorycrafting community is your opinion, which unfortunately doesn't cut it.

    TLDR; Back up your claims with legit math/numbers or go back to your corner.

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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    The fact that you state that as if you're actually proving a point just shows how little you know. How many non-CD, non-DoT spells do we cast? Mind Flay? So you'll increase the DPS of our worst spell by 1% whenever you go for haste in between breakpoints? Brilliant, I'll start re-gemming right away.

    Do you know the DPS % increase for 1% of crit or mastery for comparison? Or are you only focusing on haste because it's what all the cool sim kids are doing? Just FYI, 1% crit is also a 1% DPS increase... for ALL spells, and you don't need to worry about reaching breakpoints to see that increase.

    1% mastery is also at least a 1% DPS gain for most of our spells, plus you get more instant Mind Spikes and Mind Blasts because of the additional SW:P and VT ticks. Again, no breakpoints to worry about before you start seeing the benefits. Every single point is worthwhile no matter how much you currently have.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 03:52 PM ----------


    It may not be rocket science, but it definitely isn't that simple either. Each 1% of haste does not grant an additional tick to all of your DoTs. If you read the rest of this thread, you'd notice that you gain zero DoT ticks between ~2020 haste and ~8060 haste. That's a pretty significant gap considering the amount of reforging and gemming that needs to be done to hit the latter number in average gear right now.


    In the thread you linked, the 250PP value seems to be derived from a 1% difference between sim results. Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I think it's a little naive to assume a sim created by non-Blizzard programmers with no access to the WoW source has a <1% margin of error.
    You're probably the biggest idiot I've seen in a while.

    Please refrain from calling other posters names.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-08 at 03:48 AM.

  6. #46
    Nice going Konway...
    Arguing with some of the most knowledgeable priests in the community when it comes to theorycrafting, and not backing up any of your claims with data. That's an argument you can't win, no matter how many insulting comments you make.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarqa View Post
    Nice going Konway...
    Arguing with some of the most knowledgeable priests in the community when it comes to theorycrafting, and not backing up any of your claims with data. That's an argument you can't win, no matter how many insulting comments you make.
    I think he's just trolling, to be honest. When he said haste doesn't affect dots unless you hit the plateaus, that's where I just stopped paying attention.

  8. #48
    This is getting so confusing ! Essentially how much intellect gemming can i sacrifice to reach the haste 8085 cap?
    Since i got the Lfr Elegon trinket last night, i can finally reach the cap, but is it worth changing the gemming?
    Currently at 7920 haste

    Still can't posts links, name is Jèt, server Eu Nemesis. if you could please check me out

  9. #49
    Basically if you can reach the haste breakpoint with one or two gems then that is fine, I wouldn't use haste gems before that. For your yellow sockets (especially when the bonus is int) you should always be using Reckless Vermilion Onyx by default.

  10. #50
    Yes, that close to the haste cap you will see a DPS increase to regem. Easiest suggestion: switch your belt buckle gem from 160 int to 320 haste.

    I would not lose more than 400 int though, at current gear levels.

    Underlying Data: haste breakpoint is ~250PP at BiS gear. Haste is worth 0.44PP at BiS gear. So you can lose 250/0.56=446int for haste. Since we're not at BiS gear this will be lower. I use haste as 0.39PP, which will make it 409 int, or 400 if you round it in increments of 80 Int gems.

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarqa View Post
    I would not lose more than 400 int though, at current gear levels.
    Less than 250 Intellect actually.

  12. #52
    Thanks Zarqa for the speedy reply and the numbers so i won't have to bother you much anymore! i would have have put a 80int + 160 haste if it wasn't for you :>

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Less than 250 Intellect actually.
    Meh, Woaden. Is Drye's post on it on H2P no longer accurate?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarqa View Post
    Meh, Woaden. Is Drye's post on it on H2P no longer accurate?
    You're both citing two different parts of the post. Drye's analysis states that it is a ~250PP gain to get it, but you can replace up to ~450 int to get the breakpoint and still come out on top.

    In short: the more Int you sacrifice to get to the breakpoint, the less DPS gain it is for you. If you give up more than ~450int to get the breakpoint, it is a wash with a ~+0PP gain.

  15. #55
    I think Woaden might have missed the fact that for each int you swap, you still get the haste back. This will allow for more than the 250 Int, it's not just a matter of 250PP=250int.
    According to Kilee, the 250PP gain should stay the same across gear levels, so that is static. The only thing that will change is the PP value of haste. Drye uses your value, Twintop. But that is at BiS gear. I use 0.39 myself, which will mean 409 int, rounded down to 400.

    Not trying to be a smartass btw, just making sure I am not using faulty info.

  16. #56
    Sry, I stopped posting on this after the amount of ignorance that was shown. It just baffled me that someone is possible to neglect that much logic.

    The 8085 breakpoint isn't a high dps gain at all. For multiple reasons, in a 100% perfect world and on a 7.5min fight the 8085 reakpoint saves you a total of two sw;P gcds during the entire length of the fight. That means that if you have a total of 20 refreshes of sw;P w/o the thresh hold, with it you would have 18 sw;P casts during the entire fight.

    The second thing is, the number is being inflated by the DP2+ tick, the real dmg increase comes from that(the ~250PP gain). The dmg increase is a static increase too, so that means that the increase of dps isnt from getting extra GCd casts, its from the actual dmg of the spell.

    So there are a few things to note here, one is that the bulk of the dps gain from reaching the 8085 thresh hold is from the DP2+ tick(8064). The second is if you are refreshing sw;P at all early like from INT procs or from spamming on the move, the int loss from gaining the amount of needed haste will be a dps loss.


    I need to update my original thread on H2P with some more info and math being done, sadly with progression I wont have time to at least tomorrow night/saturday afternoon at the earliest. There was also some more information that you might not have read yet since it isnt in the OP yet:

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php...=1748&start=50

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  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    You're both citing two different parts of the post. Drye's analysis states that it is a ~250PP gain to get it, but you can replace up to ~450 int to get the breakpoint and still come out on top.

    In short: the more Int you sacrifice to get to the breakpoint, the less DPS gain it is for you. If you give up more than ~450int to get the breakpoint, it is a wash with a ~+0PP gain.
    ^ Tots right Twin, my bad. I was wrong.

  18. #58
    I know there was also a lot of talk about crit vs mastery and mastery vs haste. This should help people out a bit.

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2411
    Last edited by Drye; 2012-11-14 at 02:18 AM.

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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I know there was also a lot of talk about crit vs mastery and mastery vs haste. This should help people out a bit.

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2411
    Hay guyz I spent all night plugging numbers into my machine because it's so hard to think for myself. U can haz results, they only show a marginal difference on imaginary fights, but I think we should interpret these as the infallible word of the WoW Gods and immediately equip ourselves in a way that most pleases them.

    All bow to the holy sim.

    Amen

    Please post constructively.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-14 at 03:45 PM.

  20. #60
    Field Marshal Vacaliga's Avatar
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    OP i dont know if anyone have said it, didnt bother to read all the replys, but a simple reforge, could give you 1239 more haste and still keep you hit capped, well 5097hit so 3 rating off

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