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  1. #1
    Blademaster Trigaar's Avatar
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    Shadow Priest haste

    Right now my dps is pretty average, however on some fights when I should be top 3 or top 2 I am getting beat by people with worse gear than myself, I guess it's to to the lack of haste. Currently I have around 4600, and I need to try to get it to 8000. When ever I try to increase my haste im always losing hit. Here is a link to my armory any ideas? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Nyik/advanced

  2. #2
    Some form of log would definately help. Any specific fights to note problems?

    You're over the hitcap by a small amount (0.46), juggle that hit cap around a bit more to squeeze some extra dps.

    I see the twist of fate talent over Divine Insight. Personal preferance or is it for a specific fight? Both have their moments to shine.

    Belt buckle. Better weapon enchant helps TONS. I understand if you're short on money that you might be holding out.

    One thing I see a lot of priests doing incorrectly is haloing while standing next to a target. It does very little damage while next to your target, with its maximum damage at 25 yards. If you're stacked for some reason throw on a bubble (with your speed boost talent), run out, halo, run back. You can use your instants, and even if you're taking raid damage your healers will thank you. Of course without logs I cannot say if this is an issue for you or not.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Trigaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    Some form of log would definately help. Any specific fights to note problems?

    You're over the hitcap by a small amount (0.46), juggle that hit cap around a bit more to squeeze some extra dps.

    I see the twist of fate talent over Divine Insight. Personal preferance or is it for a specific fight? Both have their moments to shine.

    Belt buckle. Better weapon enchant helps TONS. I understand if you're short on money that you might be holding out.

    One thing I see a lot of priests doing incorrectly is haloing while standing next to a target. It does very little damage while next to your target, with its maximum damage at 25 yards. If you're stacked for some reason throw on a bubble (with your speed boost talent), run out, halo, run back. You can use your instants, and even if you're taking raid damage your healers will thank you. Of course without logs I cannot say if this is an issue for you or not.
    I had twist of fate because of the boss I was on usually I go for devine insight. Elegon 10man I did around 82k dps and I need to try to get to 100k ish

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 09:54 AM ----------

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s0...?s=1529&e=2056

    logs from last night horrendous from me.

  4. #4
    If you can get your hands on the Flashfrozen Trinket (The +hit trinket in heroic 5s), you can reforge better for haste and hit. Plus the on-use effect of that trinket is amazing, as it allows you to better control your DPS. Also, getting to that 8085 haste point is fairly important. I suggest using Haste/Spirit, Pure Haste, and Int/Haste Gems where you can to reach that haste point. During initial progression for us, I had a lot of gem slots filled with the 320 haste gems.

    Also looking at your Elegon logs, since you want to push to 100K, you need to try to keep a higher uptime on SW:P and VT at all times. And for that fight, you want to use Twist of Fate instead of Divine Insight. Because you should be getting a pretty good uptime from ToF throughout the fight because there are adds, and it really helps with the final burn phase. Also, keep in mind that your overall DPS is also dependent on how many rounds of Draw Power your raid can handle.

    You should also pick up the latest leg enchant and give yourself a belt buckle for another gem slot. And if you're really pushing for progression or damage, I also suggest picking up another profession instead of herbalism. Enchanting (int to rings), Tailoring (Lightweave and leg enchant), Jewelcrafting, and Engineering are good choices for DPS increases. You could also use a different bracer enchant as well (+180 Int or +170 Mastery).

  5. #5
    High Overlord
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    Don't fall for the haste BS. Between 2025 and 8064 haste you gain a grand total of zero DoT ticks. Yeah, you read that right: not a single one of our DoTs gains an extra tick after 2025 haste until you reach 8064. All they hype comes from a single sim that's been notorioiusly unreliable, a fact that Blizzard pointed out on many occasions -- especially during the MoP beta, when the sim numbers were off by as much as 20-30% at times.

    Even if you believe the sim is 100% accurate, reaching 8085 haste is worth ~250PP only while wearing full BiS 502 gear (for reference: 1 int = 1PP). The lower your gear level and intellect, the less value haste has. You're off that mark by 20+ ilvls, so it's probably not worth very much to you.

    People really need to stop taking sim results as gospel. It's a fun mini-game for the hardcore geeks to play around with, but there's no reason to believe it's accurate enough to determine stat values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trigaar View Post
    I had twist of fate because of the boss I was on usually I go for devine insight. Elegon 10man I did around 82k dps and I need to try to get to 100k ish
    With 475 ilvl you should easily be breaking 115k on Elegon. I'm in 470 gear and did 108k, our other shadow priest is 473 and did 114k.

    Are you using mods to track DoTs, cooldowns and procs? If not, you really need to be. Weak auras is great becasue it can do both and it's highly customizable. ForteXorcist is another popular one, but it can get confusing when you have more than two targets to deal with. I've also heard good things about Shadow Priest DoT Timer although I've never used it myself.
    Last edited by konway; 2012-11-05 at 03:22 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    Don't fall for the haste BS. Between 2025 and 8064 haste you gain a grand total of zero DoT ticks. Yeah, you read that right: not a single one of our DoTs gains an extra tick after 2025 haste until you reach 8064. All they hype comes from a single sim that's been notorioiusly unreliable, a fact that Blizzard pointed out on many occasions -- especially during the MoP beta, when the sim numbers were off by as much as 20-30% at times.
    Before you look down on people that spend the time to theorycraft for the Spriest community, you should at least get the haste point correct. It's 8085 haste for the extra dot tick from SW:P. If you can reach it through gems/enchants/reforges on your gear, it's better to reach it. On a single target fight where you're just standing there, sure having higher int values is better. However if you've gone through progression for these fights, there are alot of add/multi-target fights in MoP. That extra tick of SW:P is huge for your DPS and your uptime. It's the same philosophy as back in Cata with the extra VT tick. Remember how much of a difference it made to your spell priority in terms what you can cast and what you can squeeze in before you have to recast VT?

    Lets not also forget the importance of speeding up your cast time as well. For movement fights, which again is alot of the fights in MoP, where your MB is off CD and you want to cast it real quick, those milliseconds are important. The same thing applies for VT. Reaching 8085 haste point is really important on more then one level. However like with the haste points in the past (going for the DP tick after the VT tick in cata), it's a matter of personal preference. Do either int vs haste below 8085 based on your play style and what you feel more comfortable with. I personally enjoy the haste and the faster cast times.

  7. #7
    I have a great write up here: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1748

    As stated in it, people really over value haste and think it's this large reason why they're playing poorly. Focus less on your gear and focus more on your play style and learn the class, that will be a greater dps increase.
    Last edited by Drye; 2012-11-06 at 09:58 PM.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I have a great write up here: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17

    As stated in it, people really over value haste and think it's this large reason why they're playing poorly. Focus less on your gear and focus more on your play style and learn the class, that will be a greater dps increase.
    Best. Advice. Ever.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chashu View Post
    Before you look down on people that spend the time to theorycraft for the Spriest community, you should at least get the haste point correct. It's 8085 haste for the extra dot tick from SW:P.
    At 8,064 haste you get another extra tick on Devouring Plague, which is what I was referencing. People just cite 8085 constantly because you obviously wouldn't go for +2 DP ticks without grabbing the extra 21 haste for another SW:P tick.

    I don't look down on anyone who theorycrafts, but I do think people place way too much emphasis on the results if you consider the fact that their accuracy is completely unverified (and unverifiable). Sims are nice to get a general idea of different gearing options when you don't want to reforge and regem all your gear, but using them to assign stat values down to the the third decimal place is beyond laughable.

  10. #10
    I'm 478 and am right on the haste cap. Anytime I upgrade a piece of gear that gives me more int and I drop below the haste cap, I find myself heading towards getting back at the cap because my dps has dropped. For me, the haste cap is essential.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    I don't look down on anyone who theorycrafts, but I do think people place way too much emphasis on the results if you consider the fact that their accuracy is completely unverified (and unverifiable).
    You do know what Theorycrafting is right....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    You do know what Theorycrafting is right....
    Referring to the sim, which seems to be the main focus of theorycrafters these days.

    Actually, now that I think about it, there really doesn't seem to be much old-fashioned theorycrafting going on anywhere. As soon as there's any discussion about gearing or playstyle, people run straight to their sims and then cling to the results for dear life. It's as if everyone has lost the ability to think for themselves, so they're relying on some third party program to do it for them.

    There's one thing we know for certain about the sim: It's not 100% accurate. We don't know how inaccurate it is, but we know for sure that it can't mimic the game exactly. They don't have access to the WoW source code, so it's not their fault. The problem is that no one seems to take this into account when making gear decisions based on sim results. Everyone just states the sim results as if they're undeniable facts and then starts calculating gem and item values based on those numbers.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    Actually, now that I think about it, there really doesn't seem to be much old-fashioned theorycrafting going on anywhere. As soon as there's any discussion about gearing or playstyle, people run straight to their sims and then cling to the results for dear life. It's as if everyone has lost the ability to think for themselves, so they're relying on some third party program to do it for them.
    I'd say you haven't taken part in very many theorycrafting discussions lately. There has been MANY discussions about various part of simulationcraft what it does well what it doesn't, how it's gotten better. etc. The main people I see talk about this stuff also are open to new ideas (if you present it in some way that isn't "this one time I did this one thing and got this result") and do look very critically at sims and the results and I guarantee you they do not base any of their conclusions on one sim.

    In addition, just to use a specific example, Kilee was one of the first people who came up with the rotation we used to for the 4 set bonus at the end of cata. That originally wasn't based on the sim because it was just something he worked with and tested in other ways and originally the sim didn't model that rotation well until they start tweaking it.

    Now when you get beyond the people doing the actual work you are correct because while some people really do want to understand why things work the way they do, a fair number just want a simple and a simple rule that they can apply to everything. Sims are a tool, don't discount the vice as a bad tool just because some people want to use it as a hammer.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-11-06 at 06:47 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    I don't look down on anyone who theorycrafts, but I do think people place way too much emphasis on the results if you consider the fact that their accuracy is completely unverified (and unverifiable).
    I'm no theorycrafter, but it's not rocket science to note that a dot gains a tick ans lasts longer, giving you time to do something else.

  15. #15
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    Don't fall for the haste BS. Between 2025 and 8064 haste you gain a grand total of zero DoT ticks. Yeah, you read that right: not a single one of our DoTs gains an extra tick after 2025 haste until you reach 8064.
    Oh, let's completely forget the fact that 1% haste is a 1% increase in DPS for all non-CD spells for all caster classes. Yep. Haste is absolutely atrocious if you're not hitting a breakpoint.
    {[( )]}

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I have a great write up here: http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17

    As stated in it, people really over value haste and think it's this large reason why they're playing poorly. Focus less on your gear and focus more on your play style and learn the class, that will be a greater dps increase.
    I think you linked the wrong thread.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by andremello View Post
    I think you linked the wrong thread.
    You are right, I edited my original link and just in case here

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1748

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  18. #18
    so are we saying if u cant hit 8064 haste then just go all crit after 2025 till you get enough gear to hit 8064?
    btw im new to shadow as i normally heal but am working on my shadow as an offspec

  19. #19
    no Haste will always be our best secondary stat. The only current discussion is whether crit > mastery or mastery > crit and nether has really confirmed anything yet. they are both so incredibly close that it honestly wont change anything yet. SO there really isn't anything to worry about it. Go haste> crit=mastery.

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    no Haste will always be our best secondary stat. The only current discussion is whether crit > mastery or mastery > crit and nether has really confirmed anything yet. they are both so incredibly close that it honestly wont change anything yet. SO there really isn't anything to worry about it. Go haste> crit=mastery.
    Yeah thats what ive been doing haste-crit-mastery when possible but ty for confirming

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