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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    1. You don't have to do them.
    2. Avoid CRZ zones.
    3. PVP has always been imbalanced. As long as there are different classes it will remain imbalanced.
    How are these things that a player can be supportive of? Are you sure you are making an argument in favour of wow?

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    1) Daily quests. Forced repetitive boring gameplay.
    2) CRZ. World of gankcraft, and ruins smaller server communities while adding none of the benefits of being on a larger server.
    3) PVP is a complete disaster.
    Try doing the dailies in BC, dailies are a time sink always have been.
    Well we could always eliminate dungeon finder, raid finder and cross server battlegrounds too. Server communities were eliminated long ago.
    Pvp is exactly what it has always been, imbalanced. You go into and arena and fight if your comp is better than theirs you'll probably win. This isn't new. Or you go out into the world and 1 on 1 pvp in which case blizzard has said for a whole now that they don't balance 1v1. My guess? You picked your class because they were op now they're not and you're pouting.
    Also it should be noted that every single expansion has been the worst expansion ever until the next expansion comes out, then you'll get nostalgic for the very things you currently say you hate.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    The big question is -- will Blizzard e-v-e-r learn to not repeat bad history?
    I say no cause at this rate MOP will be another cata.

    But that is just my opinion.
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Filthy what now? This system isn't rewarding to any of those actually. It punishes casuals because even they like to progress at a moderate rate and not have their play time dictated by the daily quest vendor. Or for that matter by the daily quest limit. I mean lets say I havve sat and sunday off and can play my face offf. Why should it be limited by daily quests? Raiders also get the shaft because they are more or less now dependant on boss drops again and progression is slowed to a crawl. The point system isn't meant for them to get "reward" out of it, at least any meaningful reward or for them ever to feel ahead. The point upgrade system is for them to keep at pace or catch up if they need to with the rest of the raid. Nobody wins in this system except Blizzard.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:36 PM ----------



    Wait what? You only get 3 greater tokens a week. YOu can't turn them back in again. The lesser ones don't grant you gear or rolls. Even the fucking TOKENS are gated ffs.
    And yet you're one of the few complaining about this.

    Once more, like in every other point you've made about Dailies, you don't have to do them.

    See, here's the the system works my friend:

    Casuals can raid once a week or whenever they want, and do LFR every week to get gear. They don't have to do Dailies. They can do them whenever they want like everyone else.

    And then so forth can do whatever they want more often.

    Somehow everyone keep forgetting that Dailies are optional.

    Oh, you want more and better gear but don't wanna do dailies? Then you raid.

    Oh, you want more and better gear but don't raid? Do LFR or Dailies.

    Oh, you don't want to do either? Stick with Heroics and buy epics to get yourself geared and sit there and look pretty.

    No one is forcing you to do anything. The point system is there for people who want to buy that extra gear, and as of 5.1, upgrade the iLevel of their gear.

    I fail to see after multiple threads we're still on this topic.

    Can people please use more logic?

    (I got dragged back in because the sheer amount of illogical conclusions I've read just tugged me back in. Couldn't stand it.)
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    This is why it's bad...



    People love to remember how vanilla and TBC was (or want to believe so with rose colored glasses), but that's the result of an entire class having to raid to get gear.

    It was bad then. It will be bad now.

    The big question is -- will Blizzard e-v-e-r learn to not repeat bad history?
    Yea man things progressed they didn't revert. EVen in between vanilla and tbc things progressed. In vanilla it was just dumb. I joined later in vanilla and everything was so bloody tiered that nobody would go back and raid lower raids but everybody wanted you to have the gear from earlier raids. When tbc came out it was a fresh start and the two biggest things they did was introduce heroic dungeons and introduce crafting gear. It was great. The funny thing is "double dipping" that the developers have a problem with has existed since tbc and was primarily how you ground rep in tbc. Farming normals for heroic keys. Good times Good times.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I say no cause at this rate MOP will be another cata.

    But that is just my opinion.
    ..............

    How? Where the heck did you get this conclusion.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    And yet you're one of the few complaining about this.

    Once more, like in every other point you've made about Dailies, you don't have to do them.

    See, here's the the system works my friend:

    Casuals can raid once a week or whenever they want, and do LFR every week to get gear. They don't have to do Dailies. They can do them whenever they want like everyone else.

    And then so forth can do whatever they want more often.

    Somehow everyone keep forgetting that Dailies are optional.

    Oh, you want more and better gear but don't wanna do dailies? Then you raid.

    Oh, you want more and better gear but don't raid? Do LFR or Dailies.

    Oh, you don't want to do either? Stick with Heroics and buy epics to get yourself geared and sit there and look pretty.

    No one is forcing you to do anything. The point system is there for people who want to buy that extra gear, and as of 5.1, upgrade the iLevel of their gear.

    I fail to see after multiple threads we're still on this topic.

    Can people please use more logic?

    (I got dragged back in because the sheer amount of illogical conclusions I've read just tugged me back in. Couldn't stand it.)
    Actually lots of people are copmlaining. For instance about the reversion to 1 day a week valor bonuses. If you follow ghostcrawlers twitter their have been lots of people bringing this up and if you followed the official forums you'd see the complaints. Alot of those complaints come from people who aren't casuals actually, who have lots of time outside the raid but don't want to do dailies or pvp and still want to get better gear because well they want to continue to get progress and reward. They feel they need it or they just like it. Their are also casuals like me who can't fit raiding into their schedule and don't like dailies and are left with little to do outside of lfr/sha on the weekend.

    I think my positions are entirely reasonable and I've had many people tell me this as well. However were back to cataclysm again were anything reasonable but critical is shouted down immediately. Can we please use more tact?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ..............

    How? Where the heck did you get this conclusion.
    By the way you people act and constantly have to attack anyone with reasonable criticisms or suggestions. By your behavior in other words. Look I'll go ahead and make the assumption that you like the current system. More power to you. if that's the case then you should be calling for MODERATE reforms to it because Blizzard can't do moderate on it's own. They can only swing from polar extremes. Dungeons were hard in cata and people complained and people defended them. Now dungeons are even easier than WOTLK. Moderation is the key I feel and it's up to us to express this. I mean I have to ask what do you lose if they change the game to reward some of us more?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-04 at 06:48 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    ..............

    How? Where the heck did you get this conclusion.
    Read his Signature. You'll have your answer ha.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    Probably cause there is no CRZ in pandaria at the moment.
    Actually there is.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    2. Avoid CRZ zones.
    3. PVP has always been imbalanced. As long as there are different classes it will remain imbalanced.
    2. So just never lvl anything thats not already 85 ok lol...
    3. Pvp is at its worst balance ever you wouldn't think they could keep topping them selfs on this but they do it somehow.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Actually lots of people are copmlaining. For instance about the reversion to 1 day a week valor bonuses. If you follow ghostcrawlers twitter their have been lots of people bring this up and if you followed the official forums you'd see the complaints. Alot of those complaints come from people who aren't casuals actually, who have lots of time outside the raid but don't want to do dailies or pvp and still want to get better gear because well they want to continue to get progress and reward. They feel they need it or they just like it. Their are also casuals like me who can't fit raiding into their schedule and don't like dailies and are left with little to do outside of lfr/sha on the weekend.

    I think my positions are entirely reasonable and I've had many people tell me this as well. However were back to cataclysm again were anything reasonable but critical is shouted down immediately. Can we please use more tact?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:45 PM ----------



    By the way you people act and constantly have to attack anyone with reasonable criticisms or suggestions. By your behavior in other words.
    I'm not attacking you, first off. For some reason you think every time I criticize your points you think I'm personally attacking you..it's a debate/argument....

    Also, the cap is 1000, correct? You get 80 per valor now a day, right? Okay, so you keep running it and now you get 60 valor.

    Oh, and Scenarios are what, 40 or 50 and get reverted to 30? They last a total of 10 minutes. You chain those and in a few or even a couple hours..you're done.

    The whole reason people complain about this system is because they feel they HAVE to do this system, when they don't.

    It's like seeing any new features in an Expansion. For some reason every single person feels they are obligated to do them.

    Trust me, I was the same way.....then I took a break from Dailies.

    I only bought 2 pieces of Rep Gear in total and it was from the Golden Lotus. I just raid and do LFR whenever I feel like it now for gear, or even buy gear with Gold if I really need it.

    Running LFR for a total of 25 minutes can't fit their schedule?

    Running a 10-20 minute Heroic can't fit their schedule?

    Running a 10 minute Scenario can't fit their schedule?

    Seriously?
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  12. #192
    Answer to number 2.



    Did you forget about this when you first started World of Warcraft up?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    So now that the glitter has worn off.... Im starting to think that MOP may be the worst xpac ever, even worse than cata.

    A list of terrible issues.

    1) Daily quests. Forced repetitive boring gameplay.
    2) CRZ. World of gankcraft, and ruins smaller server communities while adding none of the benefits of being on a larger server.
    3) PVP is a complete disaster.

    I just dont see how so many people like this xpac.
    ROFL. Yeah, cata was awesome. I loved sitting in org waiting for a que to pop. You don't need to do dailies. People want to pretend like they do so they can be control freaks. Mop has plenty to do, and is a beautiful game. If you're a control freak with zero ability to control yourself when you see a shiny, then you're pretty sad.
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    2. So just never lvl anything thats not already 85 ok lol...
    3. Pvp is at its worst balance ever you wouldn't think they could keep topping them selfs on this but they do it somehow.
    Uh, actually if you're careful while levelling you can avoid it completely, and secondly don't play on a PVP server.

    You guys asked for World PVP and ganking back, you got it. Maybe the community shouldn't ask Blizzard for stuff, then complain about it when they get it, eh?

    And yes, I agree PVP is badly balanced..but it always has been.

    Explain to me how you'd Balance PVP, or anyone here, and we'll talk.
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  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    -Snip-
    But you "HAVE" to do the daily's to get the rep to spend the valor....see the problem.

    They took a system that has been in place since the end of wrath and did a 180 on it cause they wanted gear drops to feel more like the TBC style when that style no longer works.
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  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    I'm not attacking you, first off. For some reason you think every time I criticize your points you think I'm personally attacking you..it's a debate/argument....

    Also, the cap is 1000, correct? You get 80 per valor now a day, right? Okay, so you keep running it and now you get 60 valor.

    Oh, and Scenarios are what, 40 or 50 and get reverted to 30? They last a total of 10 minutes. You chain those and in a few or even a couple hours..you're done.

    The whole reason people complain about this system is because they feel they HAVE to do this system, when they don't.

    It's like seeing any new features in an Expansion. For some reason every single person feels they are obligated to do them.

    Trust me, I was the same way.....then I took a break from Dailies.

    I only bought 2 pieces of Rep Gear in total and it was from the Golden Lotus. I just raid and do LFR whenever I feel like it now for gear, or even buy gear with Gold if I really need it.

    Running LFR for a total of 25 minutes can't fit their schedule?

    Running a 10-20 minute Heroic can't fit their schedule?

    Running a 10 minute Scenario can't fit their schedule?

    Seriously?
    You absolutely are attacking. You can't accept any reasonable criticism, you have to shout it down because it could lead to some change.

    The reason people are complaining has little to do with the fact that they have to (although that's how it's expressed) and has everything with how this game is structured as a giant skinner box. Wether or not they have to is irrelevant really. I don't have to do anything in the game and never did. Nothing was ever forced or mandatory. No you feel you have to because THAT IS WHERE THE REWARD IS. The current system just frustrates them because they see the gear and they want the gear so they go full speed ahead to get the gear. Let's not pretend this isn't the desired behavior on the part of Blizzard though. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they put that gear on the rep vendor.

    LFR both halves are much longer than 25 minutes, I've had some take up to an hour.

    20 minute heroic gets them nowhere without dailies

    10 minute scenario gets you nowhere without dailies

    Both the above have ILVL limits of 463 and even the most casual of casual players I know are almost all done with those two particular avenues. They are missing maybe one or two pieces and they que for those dungeons and then leave when it doesn't drop their loot. It is not in any way shape or form a long term option for even casual players who like to progress.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-04 at 06:55 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    So now that the glitter has worn off.... Im starting to think that MOP may be the worst xpac ever, even worse than cata.

    A list of terrible issues.

    1) Daily quests. Forced repetitive boring gameplay.
    2) CRZ. World of gankcraft, and ruins smaller server communities while adding none of the benefits of being on a larger server.
    3) PVP is a complete disaster.

    I just dont see how so many people like this xpac.
    1) Just don't do the dailies, I got sick of them also and stopped.
    2) Don't play on a pvp realm then, I actually like CRZ because it brought world pvp back.
    3) Pvp is always a disaster a the beginning of an expansion.

    Truth is the expansion isn't bad so far. It is much better than Cata but not as good as WotLK and not near as good as BC.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    ROFL. Yeah, cata was awesome. I loved sitting in org waiting for a que to pop. You don't need to do dailies. People want to pretend like they do so they can be control freaks. Mop has plenty to do, and is a beautiful game. If you're a control freak with zero ability to control yourself when you see a shiny, then you're pretty sad.
    And after you do your daily's what do you do......sit in org until Q pops so don't try to act like its different you had things u could do in cata and MOP is just the same.

    Edit: Ill admit there is a bit more in MOP to do but not by much and in the end your siting in Org wanting for the Q to pop.
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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurust View Post
    So now that the glitter has worn off.... Im starting to think that MOP may be the worst xpac ever, even worse than cata.

    A list of terrible issues.

    1) Daily quests. Forced repetitive boring gameplay.
    2) CRZ. World of gankcraft, and ruins smaller server communities while adding none of the benefits of being on a larger server.
    3) PVP is a complete disaster.

    I just dont see how so many people like this xpac.
    1. Who holds the gun to your head and forces you to grind dailyes? Im sure its not blizzard.
    2. Thats what you get if you play on a pvp realm.
    3. PvP is ok, not perfect but now bad either.

    I dont see how so many can keep playing and QQ all the damn time.
    If you dont like the game just quit, its not harder thern that.

  20. #200
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    But you "HAVE" to do the daily's to get the rep to spend the valor....see the problem.

    They took a system that has been in place since the end of wrath and did a 180 on it cause they wanted gear drops to feel more like the TBC style when that style no longer works.
    Since WHEN do you need to get Valor Gear?

    Since WHEN do you need to do Factions?

    It was a godsend Blizzard took out the fact you needed to get a certain level of Rep with a faction to get an Enchant for your Helm and Shoulders.

    Do. The. Raids.

    Do. Heroics.

    Buy. Gear. With. Gold.

    Work for it.

    You guys didn't want to be able to get Epics for free?

    Whelp, here's the solution.

    The entire reason I defend Blizzard to my last breath at this point is because MOST of the community asked for all of this.

    Harder to get Epics? Done with harder raids and gating with factions.

    More content? Done with the copious amount of extra features this Xpack.

    Harder raids? Already covered, but done.

    All of this stuff people have asked for and we still have bitching about it. It's mind boggling.
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