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  1. #21
    For me at least it isn't that much about political influence but economical one. The American economical system affects everyone and one bad crap happening over there messes up a lot stuff here. I mean, if we had some influence on preventing those problems, I wouldn't complain but NOOO America guards itself so closely - but your bad crap hits our fan anyway.
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  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Because of the US' unwavering support for Israel the middle east will always be unstable, causing extremism all over the world. The US' ridiculous military budget led to the cold war arms race, and continued global insecurity. The US brought the world to the brink of nuclear annihilation over Cuba.

    The US has also started meddling when it comes to policing other things. Copyright law for example. I fail to see why an America court can request extradition for a crime which isn't a crime in the country it has supposedly been committed.

    Quite frankly, I would much appreciate it if the US concentrated more upon its own affairs, and stopped meddling.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    What do you suggest we do? "Nah son, we're full. Sorry, go back to being a war refugee in your own country LOL"

    You are correct in your assertion that a larger military does not necessarily equal more deaths. However, if it were not for the war on terror and NATO/UN troops being deployed in these wars - we would have significantly fewer casualties. It's all a question about if we get enough results for the lives taken, on both sides. I'll take a wild guess here and say that the people you have encountered that are against this "world policing" do not think so.

    Regarding the larger size of the military - I can of course only speak from my own perspective as a Swedish citizen: Why would we need a strong military when we have not been at war since 1814? I'm not saying it's inherently a bad thing to have a strong military force, but I do not see any threats to our national security. But that is a completely different debate.
    Your right it is a different debate.

    My argument would be that no one fucks with the guy that has the biggest gun.

    Anyway, yes Sweden could close its doors and say "hey were full" especially if that is what it has to do to preserve its Ancient and wonderful culture.

  4. #24
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    My argument would be that no one fucks with the guy that has the biggest gun.
    Its this aswell, I think it goes without saying that people dont hate americans we all hate your government. But the 1 gripe I have is the sheer amount of arrogance, this statement is a good starting point.

    Was watching tv the other day and a guy that worked for Mitt Romney was basicly blaming the US's problems on Europe, to which I felt like attacking my TV screen.

  5. #25
    Mechagnome Alakir the Windlord's Avatar
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    The complaining is mostly from NATO countries, people don't like when their countries are dragged into a war that has nothing to do with them.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Its this aswell, I think it goes without saying that people dont hate americans we all hate your government. But the 1 gripe I have is the sheer amount of arrogance, this statement is a good starting point.

    Was watching tv the other day and a guy that worked for Mitt Romney was basicly blaming the US's problems on Europe, to which I felt like attacking my TV screen.
    I'm sorry you feel that way, never had a problem with any scots.....and i don't intend to now.

    Teddy Rosevelt said "walk softly and carry a big stick"

    I have always thought it to be good advice.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm sorry you feel that way, never had a problem with any scots.....and i don't intend to now.

    Teddy Rosevelt said "walk softly and carry a big stick"

    I have always thought it to be good advice.
    i think the issue is that we tend to not do well on the walking softly part. truthfully, we are pretty bad at it

  8. #28
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    My argument would be that no one fucks with the guy that has the biggest gun.
    Before I go to bed I have to quickly disagree with this.

    If the guy with the biggest gun just killed my family than I am going to 'fuck' him no matter what it takes.
    That's basically what is happening in some countries right now and that's what Ron Paul is saying too.

    This thread really seems to be a lot like: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...than-America-s

  9. #29
    Our biggest problem with the USA is the fact they think they can do anything to protect them self. Best example is what the US goverment did 2 years ago, forcing the union to gife up confidential information on citizens. Just so evry time America flags someone as susipicous, they can acces any information on that person. Holland refused big time, as retaltion the USA kicked us from the G20.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Anyway, yes Sweden could close its doors and say "hey were full" especially if that is what it has to do to preserve its Ancient and wonderful culture.
    As a Swedish borderline-nationalist studying in one of the most immigrant-filled cities in Sweden (aka Malmö) I have to say that these immigrants aren't as bad as you think. My school is filled with people from the Middle East, and I only know one guy that doesn't like Sweden. The people you describe exist, sure, but most of the immigrants here love Sweden because we're one of the few countries in Europe that doesn't try to limit their culture because we think it's irrational to believe in any silly Islamist takeover conspiracy. That said, there are problems with immigration, but they are more economical rather than cultural ones.

    As for the topic at hand, don't care about the American world police-stuff, though I certainly don't appreciate the American congress trying to spread their corporate bills to other countries such as SOPA and ACTA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mefarian View Post
    Our biggest problem with the USA is the fact they think they can do anything to protect them self. Best example is what the US goverment did 2 years ago, forcing the union to gife up confidential information on citizens. Just so evry time America flags someone as susipicous, they can acces any information on that person. Holland refused big time, as retaltion the USA kicked us from the G20.
    Never heard of this, and as far as I know France is still a part of the G20.
    Last edited by Tomatketchup; 2012-11-04 at 10:45 PM.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Just curious....

    Why are some euros so opposed with us in the U.S. maintaining the status quo?
    Hostile foreign policy is always welcomed,amirite?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post

    Never heard of this, and as far as I know France is still a part of the G20.
    True france is, cause they still support there wars, we dont we pulled back the same time they asked for that information bill.

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Self serving military bullying. No straight up personal effect, doubt there's any in any of the Euro-countries.
    You going everywhere like the cock of the walk is outrageous, and in no way different than the acts of terror against you in the basic principle level. You go out to war because of something you don't like in other countries, why should you be exempt of the same courtesy?
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  14. #34
    It is quite simple: Social evolution, if you wish, requires that differences (Be they cultural or religious) be removed in order to annex.
    Just like tribes turned to peoples, by working out differences (Violently or otherwise), towns into states, states into countries, and countries into alliances of countries, social evolution requires humanity to unite, work out all their cultural differences (Either by removing separatists or slowly smothering them with false toleration under strict laws), in order to move forward.

    It is inevitable for humans to bands together against those different than them, for whatever reason they have. Question is, what will we have eventually? Ipads and boobs, or alcohol bans and head covers? Since they obviously can't co-exist (And all the politically correct people bristling about now can simply *talk to the hand*, thanks)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Anyway, yes Sweden could close its doors and say "hey were full" especially if that is what it has to do to preserve its Ancient and wonderful culture.
    There is a minor political party whose primary reason for existence is to decrease immigration. It is actually quite the interesting debate, because statistically immigrants are less employed than people born inside of the country (Source), those born abroad are registered for offences more often than persons born inside of Sweden and children of immigrants are more commonly registered for youth related crime (Source (english summary at end)), have more children than non-immigrant families, are over-represented in rape and assault, et cetera. There are outcries in the media regarding the "mass"deportation of 56 people, where there are none regarding the projections that Sweden bring in over 200% more immigrants from Somalia than country #2. (Source, page 12). Immigration is higher than ever (Source) and we expect to bring in over 50,000 people next year (consider the population of Sweden has just surpassed nine million) (Source).

    However, many of the issues we face are most likely caused by poor integration which causes segregation, which in turn turns into violence and lower employment rates. There is definitely a problem, but instead we see slogans like "Multicultural Sweden!". It's difficult to solve these issues when we bring in the vast majority of immigrants and refugees per capita when compared to our neighboring countries. To note also is the hostility and straight-up racism many of these immigrants face when trying to start new lives. Imagine being in their shoes, how would you like to be rejected everywhere and be forced to live in a nation under siege from the big bad wolf?

    It's difficult to say start saying no when we've always had open borders.

    Sorry about going off-topic - I don't know if I agree with your notion that "no one fucks with the guy that has the biggest gun". Where do we draw the line? Tanks? Thermonuclear warheads? Biological weapons? What if the cold war did not turn into the huge stalemate it did, but the USSR decided to launch nuclear missiles towards America? Do we really want more guns?

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by tomhyde1986 View Post
    I'm not saying all Americans are the same far far from it but sadly the actions of a retarded few tarnish the reputations of a nation. Sad really.
    I'm going off-topic a bit here but I just want to point something out quickly. If someone were to say unsavory things about, for example, Muslims, most people would put the fault on them and tell them that they need to not generalize about the group based on a few individuals.

    And yet here, without giving it a second thought, you assert that it's only natural for people to hate the whole group, as long as that group is Americans, thus putting the fault on a few individuals rather than on the bigots who generalize about us.

    I hate double standards, so that's why I wanted to point it out. Carry on.
    What the world needs is Lesshammad.

  17. #37
    Stop trying to control the internet.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Longview View Post
    However, many of the issues we face are most likely caused by poor integration which causes segregation, which in turn turns into violence and lower employment rates. There is definitely a problem, but instead we see slogans like "Multicultural Sweden!". It's difficult to solve these issues when we bring in the vast majority of immigrants and refugees per capita when compared to our neighboring countries. To note also is the hostility and straight-up racism many of these immigrants face when trying to start new lives. Imagine being in their shoes, how would you like to be rejected everywhere and be forced to live in a nation under siege from the big bad wolf?
    That is the problem.
    THEY are the ones unwilling to adapt. They are the ones who reach a new place and, instead of learning the language, the culture, the history and the traditions, try to force theirs on the locals.

    When in Rome, act like a Roman, not like a freaking Celt. If you're going somewhere, YOU should adapt to THEIR customs, not the other way around. All my years living abroad, I never tried to force people around me into treating me different for having a different culture, and I never separated myself from others to enclose myself with the few ones who spoke my native language either.

    Integration? How do you integrate those who do not wish to be integrated? You simply can't. A part of the problem will eventually work itself out after some generations because of mixed marriages and such. But the only true way to integrate people into a culture they want no part of, is simply by violence.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Anyway, yes Sweden could close its doors and say "hey were full" especially if that is what it has to do to preserve its Ancient and wonderful culture.
    We could, but "we" see it as our "duty", to provide humanitarian support, and new homes to political and war refugees, children etc.

    I'm quite proud of the little my country can do, we are not many, but we do what we can to help, and we are as far as I know the biggest aid givers(per capita) for example. As far as I see it, we have been fortunate enough to be born into a country that has grown to be very stable and quite rich, and if we can afford it, I don't see why we shouldn't help out.

    We don't risk losing out culture either as far as I'm concerned. But I think, we have to draw the line somewhere, we can't help everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mefarian View Post
    True france is, cause they still support there wars, we dont we pulled back the same time they asked for that information bill.
    France was quite fiercely against the Iraq war.

    OT, I have not really been affected that much, not in a negative way, if you don't count political and diplomatic pressure from the US to close down things like the Pirate Bay.

    Trying to pull obvious lies to create a case against another country is awful though. The stunt the US gov tried to pull on the world prior to Iraq was shitty, things like that reflects badly on the US as a whole. The US demanding countries to follow UN resolutions but avoiding or simply ignoring resolutions when it affects them also kind of pisses people off I think. It's like changing the rules in the middle of a game of football because the new rules works to your advantage... oh and the other team still gotta follow the old rules or they will get shot down. :P
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    That is the problem.
    THEY are the ones unwilling to adapt. They are the ones who reach a new place and, instead of learning the language, the culture, the history and the traditions, try to force theirs on the locals.

    When in Rome, act like a Roman, not like a freaking Celt. If you're going somewhere, YOU should adapt to THEIR customs, not the other way around. All my years living abroad, I never tried to force people around me into treating me different for having a different culture, and I never separated myself from others to enclose myself with the few ones who spoke my native language either.

    Integration? How do you integrate those who do not wish to be integrated? You simply can't. A part of the problem will eventually work itself out after some generations because of mixed marriages and such. But the only true way to integrate people into a culture they want no part of, is simply by violence.
    You don't think that's kind of harsh? If you moved to another country, wouldn't you want to at least bring some of your heritage with you? Maybe not, I don't know if you're one of those patriotism-is-silly-fellers, but I'm pretty sure even non-patriots would like to keep something from their past because it's comfortable. As long as someone learns the language and serve the country they're in, what does it matter how they live?

    I agree that we shouldn't accept people who doesn't respect the country, but it's a huge misconception that the majority of immigrants come to Sweden and live off tax money and want to take it over in the name of Allah and Mohammed, if that was the situation we'd most likely been in a way worse state economically than we are right now.
    Last edited by Tomatketchup; 2012-11-04 at 11:44 PM.
    I'm a European federalist. Now you know.


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