I heard often that the US (or some of it citizens have done it) titled itself the greatest democracy on the planet, when you give that title back to us (because it's ours gtfo!) then we can be friends again and talk about stuff!
Basically we get involved in conflicts that we don't want to and get on the radar of some dangerous people and organizations.
In a potential war with Iran we could be the first ones to get hit due to the fact that we are simply closer, and that we have US bases and a NATO missile defense shield.
Last edited by haxartus; 2012-11-05 at 12:02 AM.
It's not simple but it does affect our day to day lives. More then most people would think.
JUst two exemples of Terror attacks caused directly by the Iraq War. In both cases the perpetrators justified their actions as retaliation for the Iraq War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_ca...y_hostile_fire Coalition soldiers who lost their lives in Iraq.
This is not counting millions upon millions of Euros spent on War effort, Intelligence. Millions and millions spent on humanitarian aid. Hundreds of thousands of refugees that EU countries ended up sheltering.
And closing the door is not that simple.
Most refugees either arrive illegaly and sending them back home or back to the countries they crossed is often impossible as said countries either have horrible human rights records or no functional governament. Often refugees face political or religious persecution or persecution for having collaborated with NATO forces.
I would even argue that the catastrophy that is Afghanistan where NATO casualites and expenses are sky high but is considerd a "Justified" War are long term consequences of past U.S actions. Namely arming and training the Taliban against the Soviets. This came back to bite all of us in the ass after 9/11.
I personally lost a very special person to me in Madrid.
So yes. America world police does afect all of us beyond the phylosophical and moral issues of the mater, it has real direct affect on our lives.
Europe had it's own colonial period. At the end we sort of learned that if you mess with remote places you it ends up coming back to bite you in the ass. There is no right course of action. The only course of action is non intervention. Defend your home and stand by your allies if their homes are threatened, but no more.
Well, to be honest, better USA than Russia or China. Most European countries dont have big military so if one of those big bears in the east goes totalitarian and decides to bring the "gift" of communism or worse here, we'd be in a bad position. Last time this happened, Russia almost invaded Finland and Sweden would have been next if they had succeeded.
So generally I agree with USA policing the world as long as they remain on the defensive and only protect democratic countries from threats. That said, killing brown people for oil and name it "bringing them democracy" is a step too far. What they did in Iraq was not policing, it was just revenge mixed with greed.
Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...
The US having a larger miltary force than the rest of the world combined scares the shit out of the canadian government and they bend over backwards to please you.
Whether its the softwood lumber fiasco a few years ago or the major alberta/Tennessee oil pipeline you guys keep demanding.( that runs through 2 major cities).
---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 04:33 AM ----------
Remember what happened when France stated they were not going to help the US in the invasion of Iraq, because they saw no reason to? How France was depicted in the US media as weak cowards, traitors, and that they didn't want to help because they had deals with Saddam? How even the french fries were renamed because France had to be removed from the record in every true american thing?
The same happened with Spain, when Spain pulled out from Iraq after the change in our government.
It's not simply "being world police". It's the "with us or against us". Demanding the assistance of the allies without accepting any negative feedback. "My way or the highway".
Complaining about American's empire used to be an extreme-left thing, something real for those who still lived in a wall where the Berlin's Wall still existed.
In 2001 America rode a wave of sympathy, and got the help from all of us. In 2003, they tried to use that sympathy to use it in a personal vendetta, and wariness of the US went mainstream.
Having a neighbour who is much stronger than you, who can wipe you out in a second, and who will act only on its own interests is a difficult situation. And definitely, is not a neighbour you can trust.
Last edited by jotabe; 2012-11-05 at 09:33 AM.
Might is Right
And that is exactly what they do
Sure a strong US might be favorable to European Countries but has royally facked all over South Asia
Is it so hard to understand that it's not fun to be bossed around by self-proclaimed tough guy USA?
However, as much as I dislike the US world police... at least they are somewhat like Europe. We share a great deal of values.
We're much better off like this than with China being the dominant power.
Still, it's not fun.
The mentality of "Either you're with us or against us." comes to mind.
As for more personal level, here's one short summarized example:
The Netherlands, similar to other European countries, sent troops to Afghanistan to "clean up the mess caused by the US". We suffered our fair share of casualties in a war which was widely considered to be one we had nothing to do with.
Now in 2010 our government started discussing on wether or not to prolong the Afghan mission (for a 2nd time), eventhough it had already been decided that the mission would end later that year. We received serious pressure from both the US and NATO to stay in Afghanistan and prolong the mission, regardless of all the opposition. One of the political parties that was in the government held their back straight and wanted to stick with the earlier decision - which, in the end, lead to the dissolving of the government and new elections.
So basicly, the 'world policing' of the US had severe effects on the internal affairs of another country. And exactly that is another reason why non-US citizens complain about this foreign policy. The US takes decisions that have a global impact, yet 'the rest of the world' has 0 say in these matters - eventhough their countries are affected by them.
I was in America couple months back and the ppl there are really nice and always want to help you in any way they can.. In my opinion its only the government that is making decisions they shouldn't be making. But what do I know, I'm from Finland
Last edited by Heksar; 2012-11-05 at 10:27 AM. Reason: stupid typos
This coming from an American(?) is flabbergasting. You know about the history of your country, right?That is the problem.
THEY are the ones unwilling to adapt. They are the ones who reach a new place and, instead of learning the language, the culture, the history and the traditions, try to force theirs on the locals.
When in Rome, act like a Roman, not like a freaking Celt. If you're going somewhere, YOU should adapt to THEIR customs, not the other way around. All my years living abroad, I never tried to force people around me into treating me different for having a different culture, and I never separated myself from others to enclose myself with the few ones who spoke my native language either.
Integration? How do you integrate those who do not wish to be integrated? You simply can't. A part of the problem will eventually work itself out after some generations because of mixed marriages and such. But the only true way to integrate people into a culture they want no part of, is simply by violence.
I think Europes countries have learned a lesson from the era of colonial expansion. The US still have to learn that meddling in the affairs of other nations doesn´t lead anywhere but to hatred and conflict.
On an international level, it seems to me that the USA tends to ignore (or veto) any resolution towards a mistake that it or Israel has done while pushing for other resolutions to me made in the name of "freedom and democracy". In addition, it irritates me that the US can extradite anyone from almost any country in the world while their citizens/servicemen are immune to that which strikes me as hypocrisy On a personal level, I have visited (sometimes lived for some period) in some of these countries that the US invaded/planning to invade and I've met and formed many friendships over there (some of which ended because that person died due to the aftermath of those wars while I don't fully blame the US for this, they take part of the blame). Finally, I'd like to say that I feel no bad ill for the average Joe in America, the only people that I hate there are usually the president (while elected doesn't represent how Americans as a whole feel on every decision made) and "top command" in military.
On a personal level, family in the US in the military..
Other than that, a world police should go where they are needed, not where oil and internal political squabbles dictate.. Millions upon millions have been murdered in Africa (Dafur and Rhwanda to name a few places), but they don´t have oil so nobody gives a crap (my own country included)
Also they shit all over international conventions when they want something and do the exact same things they give "the bad guys" shit for.
A very fitting comment to illustrate the double standards, from The Dictator:
Why are you guys so anti-dictators? Imagine if America was a dictatorship. You could let 1% of the people have all the nation's wealth. You could help your rich friends get richer by cutting their taxes. And bailing them out when they gamble and lose. You could ignore the needs of the poor for health care and education. Your media would appear free, but would secretly be controlled by one person and his family. You could wiretap phones. You could torture foreign prisoners. You could have rigged elections. You could lie about why you go to war. You could fill your prisons with one particular racial group, and no one would complain. You could use the media to scare the people into supporting policies that are against their interests.
Last edited by Bantokar; 2012-11-05 at 01:22 PM.
As long as the 'world policing' is done in the interest of big corporations or for oil, I'll be against it. When your government can come up with something decent to police, I'll maybe change my opinion.
Until then, I'm against that sort of military intervention. It would probably be better for your economy to stop warring overseas, anyway, at this point in time.
Other than your government and the endless corporate lobbyists I've nothing against your fair country
Remember how Europe felt when Germany annexed Austria and then dismantled Czechoslovakia? Germany had the strongest military back then, there were some treaties broken - but Europe could do nothing. Same feeling towards US policing the world... we just wonder... will you go all the way?
Because you are part of NATO, and when you deal with your problems in the middle east we (Norway) are bound by that organization to send troops there. There was a poll on the biggest norwegian internet newspaper about we having troops in the middle east. I think it was close to 70% that voted that we have nothing to do there in the first place.
And.. well personally to me, fighting to end terrorism sounds like a great thing to do, but I think it is somewhat pointless as it will always return. When the next generation of the middle east is aged, all they can recall is how the westerners sent their armies in and how war broke out everywhere. Just like the current generation grew up during the Soviet invasion og Afghanistan. When you grow up in a war, chances are it will damage you physically and raise the general unrest.