1. #1

    Healing: Help me decide what to do about this recruit.

    Hello.

    I recently recruited a holy paladin for my raid team. Hes decently geared: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Xicuh/simple

    Yday, we killed Blade Lord Ta'yak, and I was pretty happy about it, until I looked at logs this morning:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12546&e=13025

    Note: This was his first raid in a while, and doesn't have awesome gear - Yet that seemed very very low to me.

    We need a strong healer (We already have a priest, and a monk), so on 3 heal fights shaman/druid/paladin is a option.

    We already have a Ele shaman and a Boomkin tho - And 2x priest ain't that great - So a paladin seems to be the best option for us.

    A paladin recruit needs to able to 2 heal the fights, with our monk or priest, (Mostly thinking with our monk, since SP is decent).
    When we reach some heroics this will be lethal (Thinkin Spirit kings, Elegon, Will) etc + there must be more normal/heroic modes that only needs 2 healers.

    Its very hard to recruit a decent one on our realm. While that being the case, should we scrap him? (Our boomkin is decent at healing too, and can heal until we get a replacement).

    I am most for giving him one more chance, with more bosses to view his healing, but it just looks really low.

    Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by Faylo; 2012-11-05 at 07:51 AM.
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
    Old Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Needle/simple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
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  2. #2
    If he doesn't shape up, find a replacement. That's just far too low healing for his gear. You'll have big problems in HC if you keep him and he doesnt shape up.

  3. #3
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    In my guild I would talk to the recruit and discuss his performance. He's missing a belt buckle and he has only reforged a few pieces of gear. Even in our semi-hardcore guild we don't allow people to join raids without their gear being "done". If it was his first raid in a while then he might just have to get used to healing raids again. I'm no healer but I'd advise him to do some research on his class and try to compare himself to good healers, then give him another try.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    In my guild I would talk to the recruit and discuss his performance. He's missing a belt buckle and he has only reforged a few pieces of gear. Even in our semi-hardcore guild we don't allow people to join raids without their gear being "done". If it was his first raid in a while then he might just have to get used to healing raids again. I'm no healer but I'd advise him to do some research on his class and try to compare himself to good healers, then give him another try.
    We allow that on blues. Even with his gear "being done", that won't make him gain the 10k+ hPS / % healing he needs
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
    Old Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Needle/simple
    LFR Hero/Alt: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...astasya/simple
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  5. #5
    By taking a quick look over the log and his armory, I can tell two main problems

    #1 is his gear, hes quite low on spirit for someone just entering raiding, not far off it mind but he has a little way to go before he can be truly competitive with someone in raid gear
    The biggest points I'd make is hes missing a lot of potential Spirit from a profession which gives a spirit perk (BS/JC/Alch) which I'm not necessarily saying he should change, but it will make his base requirements higher
    Hes also slacking a bit, crappy enchants here and there, no belt buckle (320 spirit is huge) and the wrong meta gem (another 430 spirit) with the addition that hes using the Brewfest egg, which is a poor choice to start with, he should get either of the two other healing trinkets from heroics

    #2 is his healing style, viewing the logs he only gained 2 cycles of Divine plea during that fight when it has room for 3, thats a huge amount of mana hes missing ontop of the previously mentioned problems, as well as only 1 Lay on Hands, which in his current spec is normal but if he picked up Unbreakable Spirit he could get in two, increasing his mana by another 30,000
    Also to notice from his healing style is that hes not rolling as many Eternal Flames as you'd normally see from the spec, probably because he also didn't cast as many Holy Shocks as he should have done, he could have cast around the 60+ mark and he only (gained holy power) cast 47, although props to him he was making sure he didn't overheal with it

    Basically the two TL;DR tips I'd give would be sort out that gear and make sure his regen is absolutely maxed, and when hes in a fight he needs to make sure his mana is as high as it can be at all times, even if he has to lose 10% of the mana gain its going to be better in the end as he can start to use bigger heals, gain more Holy Power, and as a result use less mana in the long run
    Personally I'd also recommend he tries the Divine Plea glyph, as having your heals reduced by 50% for 9 seconds sucks and I'd much rather be able to cast it, but thats up to his personal preference

    Hope this helps


    As a little added bonus, I just checked my WoL as a comparison, only on Feng but same fight duration and I've got 161 Eternal Flames compared to his 64, thats probably his biggest issue, with him doing 18 (90/5) Light of Dawn's but still thats not coming close to the same HP generation resulting in me using far less mana but using far more regen cooldowns and big heals as a result (Although I only used 53 Holy Shocks, apparently I slacked that fight lol)
    Last edited by Xs; 2012-11-05 at 08:39 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    By taking a quick look over the log and his armory, I can tell two main problems

    #1 is his gear, hes quite low on spirit for someone just entering raiding, not far off it mind but he has a little way to go before he can be truly competitive with someone in raid gear
    The biggest points I'd make is hes missing a lot of potential Spirit from a profession which gives a spirit perk (BS/JC/Alch) which I'm not necessarily saying he should change, but it will make his base requirements higher
    Hes also slacking a bit, crappy enchants here and there, no belt buckle (320 spirit is huge) and the wrong meta gem (another 430 spirit) with the addition that hes using the Brewfest egg, which is a poor choice to start with, he should get either of the two other healing trinkets from heroics

    #2 is his healing style, viewing the logs he only gained 2 cycles of Divine plea during that fight when it has room for 3, thats a huge amount of mana hes missing ontop of the previously mentioned problems, as well as only 1 Lay on Hands, which in his current spec is normal but if he picked up Unbreakable Spirit he could get in two, increasing his mana by another 30,000
    Also to notice from his healing style is that hes not rolling as many Eternal Flames as you'd normally see from the spec, probably because he also didn't cast as many Holy Shocks as he should have done, he could have cast around the 60+ mark and he only (gained holy power) cast 47, although props to him he was making sure he didn't overheal with it

    Basically the two TL;DR tips I'd give would be sort out that gear and make sure his regen is absolutely maxed, and when hes in a fight he needs to make sure his mana is as high as it can be at all times, even if he has to lose 10% of the mana gain its going to be better in the end as he can start to use bigger heals, gain more Holy Power, and as a result use less mana in the long run
    Personally I'd also recommend he tries the Divine Plea glyph, as having your heals reduced by 50% for 9 seconds sucks and I'd much rather be able to cast it, but thats up to his personal preference

    Hope this helps


    As a little added bonus, I just checked my WoL as a comparison, only on Feng but same fight duration and I've got 161 Eternal Flames compared to his 64, thats probably his biggest issue, with him doing 18 (90/5) Light of Dawn's but still thats not coming close to the same HP generation resulting in me using far less mana but using far more regen cooldowns and big heals as a result (Although I only used 53 Holy Shocks, apparently I slacked that fight lol)
    Seems legit. Thanks. Do you mind posting you WoL so I can compare?
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
    Old Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Needle/simple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  7. #7
    In addition to what Xs said, he's using an int flask instead of a spirit flask so he's probably using int food as well. He really needs to be stacking spirit way beyond where he is. He also used precisely zero Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor or Guardian of the Ancient Kings. He didn't use Divine Protection once which would have been super on that fight as well. He also didn't use Hand of Protection at all which can clear the debuff even though he's spec'd into double bop so could have used a total of four over the course of the night.

    All that said there is a bug where if the person logging is at the opposite end of the hall from someone they're not showing up. I ran into that with logs my guild uploaded that looked funky to me so I uploaded my own to check against and I clearly showed more healing and a spike that was missing on the guild logs.

    He has some issues with rotation and cooldown usage that need to be addressed and he needs to get his stat priorities in line but I wouldn't panic until you see how he fares in a better fight to log.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    In addition to what Xs said, he's using an int flask instead of a spirit flask so he's probably using int food as well. He really needs to be stacking spirit way beyond where he is. He also used precisely zero Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor or Guardian of the Ancient Kings. He didn't use Divine Protection once which would have been super on that fight as well. He also didn't use Hand of Protection at all which can clear the debuff even though he's spec'd into double bop so could have used a total of four over the course of the night.

    All that said there is a bug where if the person logging is at the opposite end of the hall from someone they're not showing up. I ran into that with logs my guild uploaded that looked funky to me so I uploaded my own to check against and I clearly showed more healing and a spike that was missing on the guild logs.

    He has some issues with rotation and cooldown usage that need to be addressed and he needs to get his stat priorities in line but I wouldn't panic until you see how he fares in a better fight to log.
    Hanf of Protection to clear one debuff? You mean the bleed, or the AoE?
    Main: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l%C3%A8/simple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  9. #9
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post
    We allow that on blues. Even with his gear "being done", that won't make him gain the 10k+ hPS / % healing he needs
    Perhaps, but it is a form of attitude, at least in my eyes.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post
    Hanf of Protection to clear one debuff? You mean the bleed, or the AoE?
    Bleed, Unseen Strike ignores bubble/bop...
    Quote Originally Posted by Slummish View Post
    I don't get it. I've gone AFK a million times to blow my bf so he'd get off my back and let me raid. What's the problem here? People have sex...
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    "you need to understand that my computer and i have a relationship that was here before i met you, and will be here long after we break up. if i could have sex with the CD-rom drive, you would be irrelevant. just so we're clear on this"

  11. #11
    You can bop off Wind Step.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post
    Seems legit. Thanks. Do you mind posting you WoL so I can compare?
    PMed you it, not sure whats up with the system but it won't show me if they've sent

  13. #13
    Field Marshal Sequence's Avatar
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    Did you consider they had 3 healers and pally with offheals and druid with rejuv spam?
    Ask him how much mana he had when he finished the fight.

    ~~edit;
    His meta is wrong, I prefer the spirit one, he's not reforging crit from ring/boots. And i don't recommend Pure spirit gems.
    The trinket prob the worst for pally healers, the haste is terrible at this point in the expansion, he should get Vial of Ichorous Blood.
    boots enchant should be pandaren's step.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 01:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    he's using an int flask instead of a spirit flask so he's probably using int food as well. He really needs to be stacking spirit way beyond where he is.
    Noo..? Some like int over spirit, even if he's at 7k spirit, it's more than enough, depends on your partner, even if he's totally bad.
    Last edited by Sequence; 2012-11-05 at 10:03 AM.

  14. #14
    Not sure if it is an issue with world of logs or not, but what is it with the 20% beacon up time? And I'm talking about the kill only, not the wipes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sequence View Post
    Noo..? Some like int over spirit, even if he's at 7k spirit, it's more than enough, depends on your partner, even if he's totally bad.
    There's is no way I would have enough mana to do that fight with 7k spirit. I'm sitting at almost 11k unbuffed and got through it but I didn't feel like I wish I'd had less. Current prevailing wisdom is that spirit is just better than int. Maybe 10m is different?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post
    We allow that on blues. Even with his gear "being done", that won't make him gain the 10k+ hPS / % healing he needs
    It wont raise his hps 10k but not doing that stuff shows ones mind set and what they are willing to do or not do. If ppl wont bother doing the easy and little things to improve then they will almost certainly continue skipping on things. Not know fights read up on classes or incounters stuff like that. Based on your progression I would guess you want ppl coming in as ready as they can be. If not then there is nothing to worry about and maybe they will improve.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sequence View Post
    Noo..? Some like int over spirit, even if he's at 7k spirit, it's more than enough, depends on your partner, even if he's totally bad.
    7k isn't enough to pull your weight, specially not without a 2nd regen trinket as is blatantly obvious by the logs, you flat out require at least 8k to really compete as a Holydin, and thats assuming proper trinkets and good cooldown use, which he hasn't done

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NithonKT View Post
    Not sure if it is an issue with world of logs or not, but what is it with the 20% beacon up time? And I'm talking about the kill only, not the wipes.
    His beacon healing is very low as well, so it's probably right. He might have forgotten to recast it after a wipe (there's no excuse for that). Another thing that is weird, only 17 Holy Lights in a 10 min fight? Seems way low.

  19. #19
    His number are quite low but this fight is not healing intensive (even with 2 healers). Maybe you could test him on Elegon or Will in a 2 healers raid composition.

    Btw he has some work to do on his gear like Xs said.

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