Ask Anything! MSV/HoF/ToES 25man Normal + Heroic

[Deleted]

So I talked with Raxxed, the creator of the 10man version of this thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Normal-Heroic!)
Point of the thread is the same, be as detailed as possible and I or others will try to help you and your guild out as good as possible.

HoF25H/N help as well now
Support for ToESH/N as well

[Raidboss]

I don't have any questions, but kudos to you for trying to help out the WoW raiding community!

[Deleted]

Hi, thanks for this thread.

We've cleared MV 5/6 heroic and HoF normal and we are currently focusing on Will of the Emperors heroic, starting tonight.
We're not sure if we should go for the "3DK/4Mages mass grip and ring of frost on adds strat" or if we should try it "the way it should be" with our normal raid composition... The fact is we like the full control strategy but we don't have enough DK and we have to sit out main raiders to bring in crappy rerolls for this strat.

What would you advise ? Is this strat really that much easier ? Is this fight doable if we decide to kill everything and handle sparks normally ?

Thanks

[Deleted]

Hi, thanks for this thread.

We've cleared MV 5/6 heroic and HoF normal and we are currently focusing on Will of the Emperors heroic, starting tonight.
We're not sure if we should go for the "3DK/4Mages mass grip and ring of frost on adds strat" or if we should try it "the way it should be" with our normal raid composition... The fact is we like the full control strategy but we don't have enough DK and we have to sit out main raiders to bring in crappy rerolls for this strat.

What would you advise ? Is this strat really that much easier ? Is this fight doable if we decide to kill everything and handle sparks normally ?

Thanks

If we don't look at the fact that RoF will get changed to have a limit of 10 targets, the easiest tactic to pull off would be the RoF one. Yes the fight is more than doable if you decide to kill the sparks as well, but we found the RoF one the best, this might variate from guild to guild. A small note to what you wrote, you don't NEED 3 dks, but the extra backup grip isn't a bad choice either, specially cause death knight do one of the highest dps on the boss (If they can dance)

If you decide going for RoF tactic I would suggest the dks use a monk status or water elementals as the grip target rather than running into the pack of mobs, plus you get the rages in the same spot all the time.

Useful macro for dks

#showtooltip Gorefiend's Grasp
/cast [target=focus] Gorefiend's Grasp
/targetlasttarget

[Drakoes]

Hi, my guild have cleared 5/6 25HC in MSV and are hoping for some strong progress in HoF on HC next week, but lately, there's been some slack and crappy play from some people, so I just wanted to go back to some of the basics. So here are 2 things that I just want to be clear of:

First, on our normal kill on Ta'yak, we had at least 5 people who kept failing to tornadoes in P2. Even though we got the boss down in less than a few tries, what tips can be given to them so that this doesn't happen on HC? Are they meant to run through the biggest 'gaps' between the incoming tornadoes, and not the smaller, more closely spawned ones?

Second, on Emperors HC, when have you guys found the best opportunity to lust/hero to squeeze in some extra damage? We seem to be overwhelmed with adds all the time - is this more of a DPS problem on them that is limiting us from even having a bit of time to DPS the boss?

Thanks.

[Deleted]

Hi, my guild have cleared 5/6 25HC in MSV and are hoping for some strong progress in HoF on HC next week, but lately, there's been some slack and crappy play from some people, so I just wanted to go back to some of the basics. So here are 2 things that I just want to be clear of:

First, on our normal kill on Ta'yak, we had at least 5 people who kept failing to tornadoes in P2. Even though we got the boss down in less than a few tries, what tips can be given to them so that this doesn't happen on HC? Are they meant to run through the biggest 'gaps' between the incoming tornadoes, and not the smaller, more closely spawned ones?

Second, on Emperors HC, when have you guys found the best opportunity to lust/hero to squeeze in some extra damage? We seem to be overwhelmed with adds all the time - is this more of a DPS problem on them that is limiting us from even having a bit of time to DPS the boss?

Thanks.

It doesn't really matter what gap they run through, as long as they make it pass witch sounds like a problem? Make sure you stack movement incense cds for this, if people keep getting picked up, well... Can't do much about that, tell them to play more safe if they can't dodge. About Will25H we found the best time to lust when you have a break in the add wave, Bigwigs don't have a timer for this, but you should have a timer called "Next titan gas" use that and lust around that mark when you killed the two Courage.

[Reshi]

Do you have any recommendations for Blade Lord Tayak unseen strike. We have been having issues with the strike going in pretty random directions, I don't think it works as it is intended. We thought if the raid is lined up behind the marked player and the boss when he reappears we should be safe. But that isn't always the case and sometimes he hits in pretty random directions. We have resorted to basically stacking on the marked player but it can be fairly random which direction you are hit.

Also do you have any recommendations for healing during phase 2. We have been waiting to run until the raid is mostly topped off then we run, but many times there are players dying off before even making it to the end regardless of whether they were hit or not. Do you recommend to use any instant defensive raid cd's while running or mobile healing cds.

[eschatological]

Blade Lord will face a person for a little bit, and then "lock on" and not move, though I believe he'll always hit the targeted person. I don't know if it's buggy behavior or not. He'd rotate for a little bit, then just stop.

[Jaitee]

for tayak just have everyone stand on top of the marked player the aoe cone starts a little before them so if you are all right on top of the target then everyone gets hit we found this to be the most reliable method since looking where he was then standing just to the other side of the target would sometimes backfire when his aoe cone would shoot out at pretty much a 90 degree angle

[Deleted]

Do you have any recommendations for Blade Lord Tayak unseen strike. We have been having issues with the strike going in pretty random directions, I don't think it works as it is intended. We thought if the raid is lined up behind the marked player and the boss when he reappears we should be safe. But that isn't always the case and sometimes he hits in pretty random directions. We have resorted to basically stacking on the marked player but it can be fairly random which direction you are hit.

Also do you have any recommendations for healing during phase 2. We have been waiting to run until the raid is mostly topped off then we run, but many times there are players dying off before even making it to the end regardless of whether they were hit or not. Do you recommend to use any instant defensive raid cd's while running or mobile healing cds.

Blade lord hits in a cone in front of himself, is the strike bugged? Well, yes and no. It do feel kind of random sometimes when half of the raid gets hit, even tho everyone is clearly stacks on the marked player. During the beta testing this boss had a huge amount of major bugs, some of them clearly not fixed yet.
About healing in phase two, the raid shouldn't drop critical low for the running, maybe only for the first run. A single raid cd should recover from that without any problems + HS.

[Deleted]

Also do you have any recommendations for healing during phase 2. We have been waiting to run until the raid is mostly topped off then we run, but many times there are players dying off before even making it to the end regardless of whether they were hit or not. Do you recommend to use any instant defensive raid cd's while running or mobile healing cds.

Have your RDruid(s) put symbiosis on a shaman and enjoy running treeform tranq. =)

[dennisdkramer]

Do you have any recommendations for Blade Lord Tayak unseen strike. We have been having issues with the strike going in pretty random directions, I don't think it works as it is intended. We thought if the raid is lined up behind the marked player and the boss when he reappears we should be safe. But that isn't always the case and sometimes he hits in pretty random directions. We have resorted to basically stacking on the marked player but it can be fairly random which direction you are hit.

Also do you have any recommendations for healing during phase 2. We have been waiting to run until the raid is mostly topped off then we run, but many times there are players dying off before even making it to the end regardless of whether they were hit or not. Do you recommend to use any instant defensive raid cd's while running or mobile healing cds.

As a feral druid, I get there WAY ahead of the rest of my raid (at about time as the stampeding roared warrior) at which point I'd get bleeds up and HOTW tranq. As our healers improve at getting across quickly I dont see this being necessary, but it definitely smoothed the first transition for us on our kill

[Raxxed]

I'll pop in once and a while to see what I can do to help

[xrayEU]

I'm not sure but Imperial Vizier Zor'lok seems to start on the platform your raid are standing on when starting the encounter. True or false?
Everyone in the raid stood at Force and Verve platform 3/3 times and Vizier started on our platform everytime.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure but Imperial Vizier Zor'lok seems to start on the platform your raid are standing on when starting the encounter. True or false?
Everyone in the raid stood at Force and Verve platform 3/3 times and Vizier started on our platform everytime.

I'm pretty sure this is random, we used that platform to pull from in all our raids, but still I remember the boss doing to either the sonic wave or the force and verve. Middle one (MC) was never our first.

[Dracodraco]

I'm pretty sure this is random, we used that platform to pull from in all our raids, but still I remember the boss doing to either the sonic wave or the force and verve. Middle one (MC) was never our first.

Always experienced MC last, and a random mix between force and verve and augmentation platforms first. I think it's to make sure that you will have your raid cooldowns back up for P2 Force and Verve - if you have FnV platform right before entering phase 2, you'll end up getting killed, as they won't be ready again. If there's a platform in between, the first set you used on the FnV platform should be good to go. And obviously, no problems at all if FnV is the first, rather than second.

[Deleted]

Always experienced MC last, and a random mix between force and verve and augmentation platforms first. I think it's to make sure that you will have your raid cooldowns back up for P2 Force and Verve - if you have FnV platform right before entering phase 2, you'll end up getting killed, as they won't be ready again. If there's a platform in between, the first set you used on the FnV platform should be good to go. And obviously, no problems at all if FnV is the first, rather than second.

Correct, the MC platform is always last, but the two others can be mixed around.

[Tingol]

hello,

Has anyone tried to keep one construct up all the time (1st one) by that one eating all the pools and killing every next that spawns on amber shaper? is there enough pools to keep it up if other constructs dont touch pools? seems beneficial since when 2 of them overlaps its gonna be faster stacking on the boss... which brings me to my lasy question: Is there a cap on debuff that constructs apply to their target? if the answer is no then forget all the rest

[Adornus]

Always experienced MC last, and a random mix between force and verve and augmentation platforms first. I think it's to make sure that you will have your raid cooldowns back up for P2 Force and Verve - if you have FnV platform right before entering phase 2, you'll end up getting killed, as they won't be ready again. If there's a platform in between, the first set you used on the FnV platform should be good to go. And obviously, no problems at all if FnV is the first, rather than second.

For Heroic I can't imagine it feasible unless you get the FnV platform first, IMO. The CDs for the soakers is far too important.

[Dracodraco]

hello,

Has anyone tried to keep one construct up all the time (1st one) by that one eating all the pools and killing every next that spawns on amber shaper? is there enough pools to keep it up if other constructs dont touch pools? seems beneficial since when 2 of them overlaps its gonna be faster stacking on the boss... which brings me to my lasy question: Is there a cap on debuff that constructs apply to their target? if the answer is no then forget all the rest

You shouldn't be eating any pools at all during the first two parts of the encounter.
When the monstrosity dies, he'll go into a soft-enrage phase - basicly, he'll start transforming one of your raid members into a construct every 15-20 seconds. Now, you can't kill those constructs, as he heals them for far too much, which means that they basicly have to stay up for the rest of the encounter in their construct-form.
Now, everytime they try to explode, they're going to want to interrupt themselves - this costs 8 (? I wasn't actually transformed on our kill) willpower. If they reach zero willpower, they obviously can't do it.
which means that they will have to refill their willpower by soaking up the amber-pools (20 willpower restored per pool).
This means that the soft enrage is basicly the amount of pools left up for your constructs to soak. When they run out, they're gonna start exploding your raid, and wiping you pretty quickly.

For Heroic I can't imagine it feasible unless you get the FnV platform first, IMO. The CDs for the soakers is far too important.

Nothing new there. We still reset Spirit kings untill we get Subetai second, guilds will just keep resetting him till they start with FnV platform.
Although hunters Deterrence should be up every minute and work on them.