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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    Planned on writing a whole essay on this topic right here, but I'll just leave it at "LFR is NOT required to be successful in normal/heroic modes. It gives an advantage, because the loot is higher ilvl than heroic dungeon gear. But unless your guild is full of dicks, nobody but yourself can force you to do it"
    Honestly, I've had shit luck in LFR (read: no loot) and still have a modestly high DPS on my monk.

  2. #42
    You know, even it is "mandatory" just how long are these guys spending in LFR every week for this to be even an issue?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Yeah that's obvious but WHY is that an issue?
    Since its so easy and boring, Ive done it once and will never do it again and have no problems what so ever with my guild. We are just progressing through normals

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Kaneiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doylez View Post
    Just like doing dailys isn't required for raids, right? Without LFR I wouldn't even have a raid because I'd still be mostly in blue gear. And we all know how desperately raids are looking for blue geared DPS, right?
    I dunno about your realm, but pugs on Stormrage that regularly go 3-4/6 are asking for 461+. That's not even full heroic 5 man gear.
    Hey, remember when I dropped my keys and you thought the phone was ringing?

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I don't think a solution is needed because I don't see thisas being a problem. All I see is people complaining and making a huge deal over something that is pretty insignificant.
    tbh i don't think there is a issue either but those are the solutions if there was a prob been great chatting with you btw

  6. #46
    You absolutly dont need LFR gear to clear normal raids. Of course it helps but crafted epics, rep rewards and a few heroic blues is fine. You do want good understanding of the fights and to learn to execute it as a team. LFR gear wont make people perform the normal mode tactics better or react to the mechanics quicker.

    Saying you need to do LFR every week to stay competitive but havent cleared normal modes yet kinda meens your not in the competition anymore.

  7. #47
    "Of course, in a world where you compete against other guilds, folks using those venues will most likely progress faster than you in the same timeframe, that's competition. And that's part of choosing which playstyle you want to pursue."

    The problem here is that Draztal (and Blizzard) somehow think that the mindless running of LFR is healthy for the game and part of the "competition" and playstyle. When in reality it's nothing but a repeat of the same raid these groups do, only in faceroll difficulty. You can complain about dailies (or 5 mans) all you want but at least those are completely different content that give you advantages (valor, extra rolls). That's a huge difference compared to the repeat of the exact same raid, only with different numbers (in gear and with bosses).

    The sad part is how Blizzard has previously said this is not good for the game (10/25 separation, ToC difficulty levels being bad choice), but because of whatever reasons (queue times? better success rate in LFR?), they refuse to see the problem here.
    Last edited by zaderp; 2012-11-05 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #48
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaderp View Post
    they refuse to see the problem here.
    To say that Blizzard think that the mindless running of LFR is healthy for the game is to overstate it to a great degree. They acknowledge that guilds that are naturally competitive and specifically going for world-first achievements are going to do whatever it is they're going to do regardless. Fine.

    My reading of what he's saying generally (over more than this one post) is that there are many guilds that believe that they must do all of this to be competitive when the guild isn't really competing for anything. For them, running LFR mindlessly is neither necessary nor healthy. But guilds choose their playstyle and the members either go along or not. If they go along, they shouldn't be complaining about their choices.

    I read it as more of a call to be realistic than anything else. To that extent, I do agree that it's largely futile. Guilds aspire. That's what they do. The #12,124th guild in the world may truly believe that if they run LFR as much as they can, they'll jump up a dozen thousand places in rankings. Players can choose to agree or not.

    In the end, it's a choice, not a requirement.
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  9. #49
    i run lfr on tuesdays with about 5-6 other raid members. we do each half of lfr in 20 minutes or less... people need to stop crying about doing lfr. if u want the gear, youll do it, if you dont want it as much, then you wont do it.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Do you have to be in a "top guild" (whatever the definition of this would be) to not want to cripple your raid and possible hinder your -own- progression?
    I don't even understand why having an extra avenue for extra progression is even a bad thing. "KEEP THESE THINGS AWAY FROM ME SO I DON'T HAVE TO DO THEM!!! I HAVE NO SELF CONTROL!"

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    What exactly is the issue?

    [] I don't have time for LFR
    [] LFR is full of retards and hence no fun
    [] something else

    ?
    The issue is that Blizzard continuously talks shit out of both sides of its mouth and this is the most prevalent point to bust them on it now given Ghostcrawler's previous blue posts that LFR is not required for Normal / HC raiding and his subsequent tweets that those having trouble clearing MSV on Normal should hit LFR and gear up.

    The issue isn't the end of the world, but it makes for a damned good lightning rod.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    The "issue" is that there are certain people that say they're forced to run LFR to be able to do normal/heroic modes.
    If they feel they are being forced it to doing it, then they are being forced into doing it. Blizzard can argue all they like about it not the intention but it matters not.

    Personally, I think Blizzard know exactly what they are doing and they want people to run it. Why else dont they make it share a lockout with normal?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneiac View Post
    I dunno about your realm, but pugs on Stormrage that regularly go 3-4/6 are asking for 461+. That's not even full heroic 5 man gear.
    On Blackrock, at first, it was people asking for 460-ish.
    Then 460-ish plus "experience".
    Then 465+ish plus an achievement
    Now, it's usually 465-468, and an achievement of some sort.

    That's how it's always been, though. If you want to do anything you can't queue for, and your guild doesn't do these things, you're going to have to deal with this bullcrap --- and this is part of why very few people raid.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    If they feel they are being forced it to doing it, then they are being forced into doing it. Blizzard can argue all they like about it not the intention but it matters not.
    I'd like to see all those people who run LFR weekly, gun pointed at their heads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    Personally, I think Blizzard know exactly what they are doing and they want people to run it. Why else dont they make it share a lockout with normal?
    Of course Blizzard wants everyone to run LFR, not really wise to make content and wish people doesn't use it.

  15. #55
    why so much whining about havign to do lfr. If having to do lfr is required to be a hardcore raider. And you see yourself as a hardcore raider. Then just f... do it. If its too much for you. Then your a not so hardcore as you think then are you ?

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer SL1200's Avatar
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    Entitled players feel like they should be given lfr gear for being so special cause they pay 15$ a month, and they're just too good for lfr players....

  17. #57
    There's an overly vocal group of players in WoW that will always find something to complain about. LFR is has been their straw man since before it came out.

    Here's part of the issue though: Most players thinks they are better than they really are. They think that what is separating them from downing bosses they are stuck on is gear, not skill. They're willing to invest time in running content that rewards more gear, but they aren't willing to invest time looking through a class guide and investing practice time in getting better. These are the players that then whine that they are "required" to do LFR in order to complete normal modes.

    In Wrath, we were forever looking for skilled raiders for our normal mode raiding guild teams. So in addition to external recruiting, I turned to some of the "benchwarmer" players in the guild. These are the players who thought they were good, but were always complaining about their gear not being good enough. So I started a "Raider Boot Camp". We worked on all the fundamentals - spec, rotation, DPS on the move, cooldown usage, gems/enchants, etc. I simply used the best available guide for each class to help them maximize their potential.

    Without exception, these players went from perennial bench warmers to front line raiders. They made appreciable DPS increases. Their raid awareness went up (we did raid awareness drills as well). In 90 minutes.

    Funny thing - each time I began, I always would have someone pissed off that we weren't going to focus on gear. Each time they believed that was the #1 thing holding them back. Each time, when they set aside that prejudice and worked with us, they drastically improved.

    For those feeling "forced" to run LFR, I would instead offer a suggestion. Run a "Raiding Boot Camp" instead. You'll get a lot farther.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher069 View Post
    If these people are that serious about raiding why are they not used to doing everything possible to get an edge on content? Laziness? Just wanting to complain? I have no idea but that just confuses me.
    Because the average WoW raider wants to overgear raids and blaze through them. They also prefer to take any shortcuts, and that at usually the healers expense.

    See enough of it, that roller coaster isn't worth the hell.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  19. #59
    There's a certain segment of the playerbase and the non-playerbase who hate LFR with a passion and will latch on to any argument to try to get LFR nerfed/diminished/removed. It's pretty silly how the big anti-LFR argument these days is "I can't raid normals without LFR gear so lock out LFR so I can't do it". There's a pretty big logical flaw in there somewhere.

  20. #60
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Because the average WoW raider wants to overgear raids and blaze through them.
    Being cynical for a moment, you forgot the part where after doing this they then come onto the forums to complain about how the raid was too easy.
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