1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Prot Paladin LF help with reforges

    Thanks for reading this, I am a new paladin tank ( only did DS three times ) and now trying some progression. After reforging everything to mastery i notice to take more damage than before when i had 6% more avoidance ( dodge + parry ). My group is casual raiding and we don't do WoL - but if it is important i will do some tonight ( on Garalon ) or tomorrow on other bosses.

    Here is my armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Monax/advanced

    Let me know about any suggestion or positive feedback that you can provide.

  2. #2
    You need more hit/expertise to make that Mastery worth it, 7.5% and 15% respectively

    And the point of Mastery/Haste over avoidance is that you take more damage but its a lot smoother so the healers can use Holy Light and other efficient heals rather than shitting themselves and having to use Divine Light and other very inefficient heals

    Also you can get mastery on bracers, and a better gem in your legs, I'd also recommend getting rid of the Stam gems as you have a Stam trinket, you really don't need that much health when you're only doing normals

  3. #3
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Make sure your hit is 7.5% and expertise is 15% - after that reforge everything into Haste or Mastery.
    Haste is my personal preference.

  4. #4
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    well it says that i have only 0.44% miss chance and 0.21% parry. Why should i go for more? Are these so important? And why haste 15%? isnt 7.5% is enough as hit? Dont forget i am a drenai so i need less hit.

    Thank you for replying !

    Haste? really ? what is a proportion in effective health between haste and mastery? is haste better than mastery ?

  5. #5
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chort View Post
    well it says that i have only 0.44% miss chance and 0.21% parry. Why should i go for more? Are these so important? And why haste 15%? isnt 7.5% is enough as hit? Dont forget i am a drenai so i need less hit.

    Thank you for replying !

    Haste? really ? what is a proportion in effective health between haste and mastery? is haste better than mastery ?
    There's a reason they're caps.
    If you don't have 6.5% hit (You're a Draenei) you're gonna miss.
    If you don't have 7.5% Expertise, you're gonna get dodged.
    If you don't have 15% Expertise, you're gonna get parried.

    I didn't say 15% Haste mate.

    It's down to personal preference in my opinion regarding Haste vs Mastery.

  6. #6
    I've seen a lot of different set ups from paladins all of them seem to be successful. Some people are clinging onto the Mastery > parry/dodge > Hit > exp thing, others are using the Stam > Hit(7.5%) > Exp(15%) > Haste/mastery > Haste/mastery > Parry = Dodge thing. Personally I am using the Haste/mastery thing. So really test stuff out, see what you like the most.

    If you go with avoidance your damage will be spikey, with haste and mastery damage taken is a lot smoother, and quite noticable believe it or not.

  7. #7
    Yeah, the Haste can also give you some really nice self healing as well as DPS. I actually soloed the last 5 million of Elegan in LFR after the rest of the raid had wiped. I know that this is just anecdotal evidence but it was really cool when it happened. I know that there is a lot of discussion about what is the most optimal between the theory crafters. You should just find out what works the best for you and with your group. The haste model does require you to actively watch for the high damage times during a fight and make sure that you are deploying your shield at the right time to reduce the damage. If you just go to an all haste build and pop your shield whenever you can, you may not see as great of a benefit.

  8. #8
    High Overlord
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    But isnt it a point to have so much haste so i can keep shield up 100% of the time ( some haste brake point ) ?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chort View Post
    But isnt it a point to have so much haste so i can keep shield up 100% of the time ( some haste brake point ) ?
    I don't know what kind of haste you would need for that, but the shield buff only lasts 3 seconds, so you would need to be generating 3 HP around every 3 seconds. Judgments, CS, and AS procs generate the holy power, so I think you would need some super high haste to get there.

    I am not a theory crafter myself, although there probably are already some numbers on this.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Relur View Post
    I don't know what kind of haste you would need for that, but the shield buff only lasts 3 seconds, so you would need to be generating 3 HP around every 3 seconds. Judgments, CS, and AS procs generate the holy power, so I think you would need some super high haste to get there.

    I am not a theory crafter myself, although there probably are already some numbers on this.
    You would probably need over 100% haste for that.

  11. #11
    High Overlord
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    So what is a point of haste? how does it affect mitigation? reduces judgment and hummer/crusader for very small amount equaling extra shield every 20 shields?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chort View Post
    So what is a point of haste? how does it affect mitigation? reduces judgment and hummer/crusader for very small amount equaling extra shield every 20 shields?
    That's the point of active mitigation. If you were able to get a 100% uptime of your SoTR buff then you would no longer be actively mitigating, it would just be the number that Paladins had to hit in order to not worry about mitigation. Haste gives you the tools to generate the procs when you need them, ideally you would be hovering around 2 HP at any one point, firing off a shield when you hit 5, always having two in the tank combined with a high haste rate would allow you to throw off two shields in quick succession thereby reducing damage for 6 seconds in a row while the boss gives you the heavy hits. I have heard it mentioned that a boss swing timer addon is very helpful for measuring this.

    Also the Haste focus doesn't push you away from Mastery either, you still will have mastery that will make your haste even more beneficial. Again, do what works for you.
    Last edited by Relur; 2012-11-05 at 08:23 PM.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire
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    I toyed with a haste build and while it was fun, I don't see it as being particularly viable for heroics or later tiers. Yes, the incoming damage from a mastery build seems to be slightly spikier, my healers haven't complained one way or another. I've been extremely easy to heal with both builds. Now that I've had my fun with a haste build, I'm sticking with mastery until they change it again.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    I toyed with a haste build and while it was fun, I don't see it as being particularly viable for heroics or later tiers. Yes, the incoming damage from a mastery build seems to be slightly spikier, my healers haven't complained one way or another. I've been extremely easy to heal with both builds. Now that I've had my fun with a haste build, I'm sticking with mastery until they change it again.
    I would be interested in why you believe it is not viable for heroics or later tiers.

    Haste is the stat that currently scales the best with gear. If you think it is viable at your current gear level, it is only going to pull further ahead.
    It will only become better with each tier. Not to mention that the 4p bonus benefits haste much more than mastery build.

    The only reasoning I could see for haste build not being viable for heroics is that stamina stacking could be more viable, to get your HP up. But currently nothing that makes mastery build superior in heroic modes compared haste. There could be argued in MGV that Emps HC + Gara HC favors mastery due to fight mechanics. But with some smart gameplay, you can instead make it so haste far surpass mastery ( especially on gara'jal ).
    HoF is however greatly favoring haste over mastery due to fight mechanics. Guess we will have to wait and see for ToES

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Chort View Post
    Thanks for reading this, I am a new paladin tank ( only did DS three times ) and now trying some progression. After reforging everything to mastery i notice to take more damage than before when i had 6% more avoidance ( dodge + parry ). My group is casual raiding and we don't do WoL - but if it is important i will do some tonight ( on Garalon ) or tomorrow on other bosses.

    Here is my armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Monax/advanced

    Let me know about any suggestion or positive feedback that you can provide.
    Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but Colossus is probably not the best enchant you could be using.

    Windsong is the go to choice these days.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You would probably need over 100% haste for that.
    About 240%, actually. With zero haste rating you get about 42% ShoR uptime, with bloodlust that goes up to around 54%.
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