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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Do any of your policies state you can publicly insult a customer via sarcasm? Somehow I doubt it.
    Actually I don't have anything in my agreements that say I can't insult the customer, it just says I can't insult my own company. Which btw is the reason I never mention my companies name anywhere publicly, whether thats on forums, Facebook or what have you. The odds are small, but you just never know.

  2. #102
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanthi View Post
    I think you're mistaken. As I said, some employees are outright forbidden to talk to others about the company. Unless you're arguing that all employees in most big companies are forbidden from talking with the public/customers, it's obvious that different sets of employees have different sets of powers and standards in terms of talking with the public.
    What you're not understanding is corporations have a code of conduct that applies to all employees. Be it the dev staff (which is only part of Blizzard) right down to the janitor. Managers, like GC, will have additional responsibilities due to his role, but he is required as anyone to albeit by that code let alone any legal agreements (which are more strict for them).

    Anytime they do post they run a risk of repercussions if it hurts the company and/or customer base. No position is immune to it. Not the CEO, not GC. Corporations are huge organizations and employees are but one in a sea of them, and any are expendable for the sake of the corporation itself.

    They do not have special "powers". Hurt business, it's out the door.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    In our case our vendor is also our customer. They supply the material, we produce what we do and send it back to them. Trust me I've seen things get fairly nasty at times with some employees, but at the same time had others said that same thing they would of been fired. Its all about job position.
    Ha ha - I've been in that situation. Very early in my career, a customer once told me "Treat us like you would any supplier". So, I thought they were testing our supplier quality processes. So....I issued them a Corrective Action when they sent us crap. Needless to say...it didn't go so well....lol. I learned a good lesson that day - customers don't always say what they mean.

  4. #104
    Mechagnome shanthi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    The sarcasm was an indirect insult. Very few companies approve of publicly using sarcasm as a backhanded insult to customers.
    I can't say I agree. It wasn't an insult at all, unless you use an extremely loose concept of an insult. Most companies, though, don't have a major internet forum presence (though that may change over the coming years), which makes direct comparisons hard. From my rather small experience with companies that do, their forum moderators/representatives are generally bound by the same code of conduct as the "public" that posts on them. They might be held to a slightly higher standard in terms of not getting into pissing matches and such, but an individual post like Draztal posted there? I can't see that getting him fired or demoted in any company that employed him as a forum community manager.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    I personally enjoyed that dialogue myself, watching that blue poster tear that idiot a new one.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 12:53 PM ----------



    That was one epic meltdown.

    Can't help it.
    Posting impassionately, they say you don't care.
    Posting nothing, they say you ignore.
    Posting with passion, you incite trolls.
    Posting fluff, you say nonsense.
    Post with what facts you have, they whittle down with rationale.
    There is no win.
    There is only slow degradation.
    Take note. It is the first and only time you'll see someone in my position make that position.
    You can be me when I'm gone.


    http://www.wowwiki.com/Tseric
    Was he the same guy who stole the photo copier/printer on his way out after being sacked?

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Sadoraan View Post
    I'm not sure if there was already a topic about this somewhere, but does anyone else think it is great that the blue posters (particularly Dratzal) these days have, to a point, stopped taking all the shit that gets thrown at them on the forums? Up until recently, it seems that the blues pretty much take all the insults, all the poorly worded and angry comments and then reply to them placidly, but recently they seems to have developed some "fight" in them. After all, if the forum posters want to argue their points loudly (And often rudely), then why can't Blizz's representatives do the same? (Up to a certain point of course, as professionalism must be maintained).

    Replies like:
    But you still ran it for a chance to upgrade some slot and valor, correct? I won 2 lfr items last week and i replaced them in a matter of days, but i still ran it 3 times. The thing is a lot of us dont want to run it AT ALL.
    Then don't. It's obvious that you are well beyond the skill level of any player posting here and that you'd rather not play with "mouthbreathers", as you so elegantly and politely put it in your previous post. So, by all means, open Vent, repeatedly tell your guildmates how awesome and uber skilled you are and run with them Normal and Heroic raids, but the attitude you display towards players running the Raid Finder is completely unacceptable and needs to go.


    Make the blues, in my opinion seem more human, and demonstrate that idiotic and elitist comments will not be tolerated.

    Forum posters need to learn that their opinion is representative of a miniscule amount of the wow population and that they need to accept answers given by blues, and i think this is a way to go about it.

    I personally fins this sort of response childish and immature. They are the representatives of their company they should not act like children even if their customers do.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  7. #107
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    I work for one of the largest companies in the world and you are correct in that we have set policies for all employees, but there are still some differences depending on your job. I can say and do things that our managers just couldn't get away with, but then there are things the plant President can say and get away with that I can't or the managers can't.
    That is true while it's "business as usual", but if there's any audit, heads can and do roll.

    Remember a plant president who was fired for violating corporation policy (yep one of those top 500 companies too). The corp had to setup surveillance to verify the allegations, and he was caught red handed. Corporations are much different than smaller companies, everything is fine and dandy until the shit hits the fan, then it's walking papers. Be it from the top, down. They take seriously keeping in business, aggressively so.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  8. #108
    As a long-time reader of http://www.notalwaysright.com I fully believe that there is such a thing as a bad customer, and a very large amount of the customers Blizzard has to deal with fall into this category. I think it would be a net benefit for the company if these guys were all put in their place and/or banned. Respect is a two-way street and too many people feel entitled just because they are a customer. Blizzard does not deserve the vitriol and idiocy that people like the guy Draz was responding to spew forth on a constant basis. It's about time for Blizzard to step up and tell these idiots how to behave like responsible adults.

  9. #109
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    As a long-time reader of http://www.notalwaysright.com I fully believe that there is such a thing as a bad customer, and a very large amount of the customers Blizzard has to deal with fall into this category. I think it would be a net benefit for the company if these guys were all put in their place and/or banned.
    /facepalm

    Do you guys even read what you post?

    If you think a very large amount of Blizzard customers are bad, and your solution is to talk down or ban them, do you believe it'll help Blizzard's bottom line?

    Why do you think they put up with it in the first place? They're just nice guys?

    /facepalm
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  10. #110
    It'll make the experience for people who aren't idiots better, so maybe? I don't have the inner workings of their financials and I don't think you do either. Also, condescend more, your face isn't imprinted in your palm enough.

  11. #111
    High Overlord
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    The amount of toxicity permeating through the Blizzard official forums is nauseating. I honestly believe these vehement posters should be publicly ostracized. I would much prefer a forum where constructive criticism and thoughtful suggestions are made over the rampant amount of malcontent topics that are continuously popping up.

    I used to work for a company and this one faithful day a customer flipped out at customer service. Screaming at the top of his lungs profanities at the poor customer service representative because a discount wasn't applicable. A manager literally forced the man out of the store, telling him off in the process. The customers there actually applauded.

    Forum trolls to me are no different, completely viral and add nothing worth while to the business. I find it hard to believe that most players wouldn't cheer when a CM puts players lacking any kind of decency in their place. Honestly, what business in the world would allow a person to enter its doors and act in a loud, moronic, attention grabbing way, insulting other customers and its work staff while in the process.

  12. #112
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    It'll make the experience for people who aren't idiots better, so maybe? I don't have the inner workings of their financials and I don't think you do either. Also, condescend more, your face isn't imprinted in your palm enough.
    By eliminating most of WoW's subscriber's base that you suggested are a "bad customer" is NOT good business sense.

    That is not healthy for ANY business.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    /facepalm

    Do you guys even read what you post?

    If you think a very large amount of Blizzard customers are bad, and your solution is to talk down or ban them, do you believe it'll help Blizzard's bottom line?

    Why do you think they put up with it in the first place? They're just nice guys?

    /facepalm
    No, a large amount of the customers they have to deal with.
    Nice guys are mostly playing the game or posting stuff that doesn't require Blue-attention.

    Some months ago we had a user on the official forum who basically insulted 90% of all players.
    The blue-poster could have ignored it. And we all know the saying: "silence is consent". People don't like it if moderators keep silent when they are being insulted.
    But what he did was put that guy in his place, which made people happy since 'the company made a stance against online bullying'.

  14. #114
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    I like it. Seriously? The thread in question makes me cringe about what people post.

    It is very clear that normal raids were cleared in ilv 463 gear with rep levels at honored at most. The week after that, heroic raids got cleared. People spouting this shit how they are "competitive" and are "forced" to run LFR need their head examined.

    Competitive raiding was over 3 weeks ago...hell...even on my server where no guild is 6/6 HM, competitive raiding is still over, because only 2 guilds are in HMs and nobody of their raiders needs LFR upgrades.

    SKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    Hmm...

    Fortunately, that's a topic for another thread, not the topic of this one. :P
    It most certainly does.

    The whole chain of posts if you actually check them out people were telling this blue poster(who like people said has not been "taking" anything for months because he's been rude for the past year) that a guild will make you feel obligated to run it because if you didn't run LFR that week and you're still wearing a blue piece and you miss an enrage timer, they'll look at you. The blue poster would not understand this. He kept saying "you can get gear from heroic" except he seems to neglect said gear has to drop. I went through expansions where I went a whole patch without getting an upgrade pretty much due to RNG. WotLK is a PRIME example. I had a Naxx trinket til almost ICC. I think my first upgrade drop was from Heroic Anub in ToGC. If LFR was around back then, my guild would have been pushing for me to run it for a trinket.

    The customer's second point was being forced to carry players which the blue poster not only admitted it's fine to have to carry bad players but it was a part of the design. If you can't pull the dps your gear should be able to pull or at least within 5-8k of it which many in LFR cannot, you shouldn't be getting carried and yes you are in fact a mouthbreather as the guy put it. He broke down to claiming mouthbreather when this Blue would NOT understand what he was talking about because he is in fact so disconnected from the game it's not even funny.

    The blue was out of line and trolled this player into getting agitated and then got pissy with him and should be fired. He has been trolling for almost a year on the forums as a blue poster and enough is enough. He hasn't been patient. He's been aggressive and attacking. He is the complete opposite of patient and never was.

  16. #116
    Hahah nice blue posts.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    By eliminating most of WoW's subscriber's base that you suggested are a "bad customer" is NOT good business sense.

    That is not healthy for ANY business.
    Maybe you should reread what I said (ironic, since you implied that I failed at reading my own posts). I said "a very large amount of the customers Blizzard has to deal with" and not "most of WoW's subscriber base." Furthermore, the implication is that they are banned from posting on the forums, not necessarily banned from the game itself. I made no assertions that more than 50% (which is what most means) should be eliminated.

    Secondly, if people see that Blizzard is starting to take action against flamers and trolls, then they may be less likely to act like trolls themselves, ultimately benefitting the entire community and potentially increasing profits for Blizzard as it starts attracting people who like good communities. As I said, I do not know (and unless you have deep insight into Blizzard's financial data, neither do you), so I only suspect such an outcome.

    I stand by my assertion that blues should not tolerate open hatred and venom from their customers, as no legitimate business should *want* customers like that.

  18. #118
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    Maybe you should reread what I said (ironic, since you implied that I failed at reading my own posts). I said "a very large amount of the customers Blizzard has to deal with" and not "most of WoW's subscriber base."
    Very large amount would be most of WoW's subscriber base. -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    Furthermore, the implication is that they are banned from posting on the forums, not necessarily banned from the game itself. I made no assertions that more than 50% (which is what most means) should be eliminated.
    Do you think this "very large amount" of players banned from the forums will want to continue to play the game? The addicted would, but not everyone is addicted, and at this stage of WoW's existence folks don't need many reasons to leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    Secondly, if people see that Blizzard is starting to take action against flamers and trolls, then they may be less likely to act like trolls themselves, ultimately benefitting the entire community and potentially increasing profits for Blizzard as it starts attracting people who like good communities. As I said, I do not know (and unless you have deep insight into Blizzard's financial data, neither do you), so I only suspect such an outcome.
    Did banning before improve the WoW forums? It didn't back in the WotLK days, in the Cata days and certainly won't in the MoP days.

    Do you know why?

    They ban the wrong people.

    They treat the forums like a Facebook page. People are getting banned for the most obnoxious reasons. Meanwhile, 10000000001 drivebys post there stinking up the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkone238 View Post
    I stand by my assertion that blues should not tolerate open hatred and venom from their customers, as no legitimate business should *want* customers like that.
    No one sane would suggest they should be punching bags. But what folks are suggesting is using a tad more tact.

    Don't need another DiabloIII style dev dissing. It's horrible for PR.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  19. #119
    I love it, sadly those CMs usually invest themselves too much emotionally in this community and usually don't last simply because there's just a point you can't deal with all the bullshit people throw at them.

    See Tseric.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Quenchiest View Post
    It starts with sarcastic comments, then it escalates. Until ...

    We all remember Tseric right?
    Bring back Tseric!

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