1. #1

    Post 10 man guilds' average ilvl list before HoF heroics

    During MSV heroics there were plenty of discussions about ILVLs in the 10 man guilds. Mostly just claims that Paragon had 10/15/25 ILVLs better gear than other 10 man guilds because they funneled gear from 2-6 different 25 mans (these numbers are from US BNET forums) to their 10 man team. For HoF heroic progression I decided to find out how much of a difference there really is.

    Here's a list of the average ilvl the current top 15 10 man guilds' highest ILVL characters have at the moment (Monday evening in EU, 1-2 days before HoF heroics open).

    10 man guilds:
    Code:
    1	DREAM Paragon (10/25)	        EU-Lightning's Blade	494.27
    2	Freak Me Out (10 recruiting)	EU-Arak-arahm	        490.6
    3	BIZZNO (10)	                EU-Deathwing	        489.79
    4	Depraved (10)	                EU-Twilight's Hammer	488.72
    5	Myth (10 recruiting)	        EU-Mal'Ganis	        488.84
    6	Интервенция (10/25)	        EU-Ткач Смерти	        487.53
    7	Avast (10 recruiting)	        US-Frostmourne	        489.08
    8	solid line (10 recruiting)      EU-Mal'Ganis	        484.42
    9	devil may cry (10 recruiting)	EU-Mal'Ganis	        491.08
    10	Moonz (10 recruiting)	        EU-Destromath	        488.26
    11	Die Hordlinge               	EU-Azshara	        486.96
    12	Trinity (10 recruiting)	        EU-Archimonde      	489.69
    13	ФАРТОВЫЕ (10)	                EU-Гордунни	        485.98
    14	Crimson Blade (10 recruiting)	US-Frostmourne	        487.63
    15	Нафиг с пляжу я ту..     	EU-Дракономор	        491.1

    Some 25 man guilds:
    Code:
    1	vodka (25 recruiting)	        US-Alterac Mountains	491.88
    2	Blood Legion (25 recruiting)	US-Illidan	        492.548
    3	Envy (25 recruiting)	        EU-Auchindoun	        491.208
    5	Экзорсус (25 recruiting)	EU-Ревущий фьорд	493.62
    7	Why Me (25 recruiting)      	EU-Wrathbringer	        493.844
    12	Method (25 recruiting)     	EU-Twisting Nether	491.84

    Ranks are from WoWProgress and ILVLs are from GuildOx.
    Disclaimer: Some high ILVL characters might be in RP gear and their ILVL might not be included, some might not have been updated on GuildOx, higher ILVL is not always better (especially when it comes to set bonuses), the averages are from 10 or 25 best geared characters in the guild which might not be the guild's main raiding team. Also some guilds haven't finished their normal clears at the time the lists were made. But the lists should be close enough to the truth.

  2. #2
    So what do you want to discuss.

  3. #3
    Moderator
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    I think the discussion between H-HoF and H-MSV is largely different, as there's been MSV to farm for a bit for HoF which equalizes what loot people might have.

  4. #4
    I haven't really read up on my heroic tactics yet but from what I've seen so far in HoF it feels a lot harder than MSV normal was at release, so regardless of ilvl there should be some nice competition amongst the top guilds.

  5. #5
    There was never competition really. And especially now, with BMAH, when people with access to infinite amounts of gold can get hc drops from conent before it is actually unlocked, is stupid.

    490+ avg ilvl is also lol, thanks to all these abuses, blizzard will never fix their damn broken (especially in MoP) system of rewards in PvE. 490+ is almost 2 tiers above ilvl guilds would have now without cheating.

    WTS common sense.

  6. #6
    It's really not that hard to get geared and the difference in top 10 guilds and top 1000 guilds isn't that huge. My guilds ranked ~ 700th world wide and most of our raid team are around 486+ ilvl. My DK has been lucky and is 491 ilvl. Last week in our MV heroic clear we DE'd 50% of the gear we got. We haven't been funneling gear from multiple raid teams, just going in every week and clearing as much as we can.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    There was never competition really. And especially now, with BMAH, when people with access to infinite amounts of gold can get hc drops from conent before it is actually unlocked, is stupid.

    490+ avg ilvl is also lol, thanks to all these abuses, blizzard will never fix their damn broken (especially in MoP) system of rewards in PvE. 490+ is almost 2 tiers above ilvl guilds would have now without cheating.

    WTS common sense.
    How is use of the BMAH or funneling items to main raiders with alts cheating exactly? People got around limited attempts on H LK 25 using alts with the EXACT same gear/class/spec as their mains so I do not see the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    “When people talk about the good old days, I say to people, 'It's not the days that are old, it's you that's old.' I hate the good old days. What is important is that today is good.”
    ― Karl Lagerfeld
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    490+ avg ilvl is also lol, thanks to all these abuses, blizzard will never fix their damn broken (especially in MoP) system of rewards in PvE. 490+ is almost 2 tiers above ilvl guilds would have now without cheating.
    i dont like the BMAH, but its not cheating/abusing etc. and it doesnt make a big difference. otherwise the EU-Malganis raids would have the lowest itemlvl, because 3 guilds share one BMAH.

    these guilds killed 22-24 heroic and more than 36 normal mode bosses (most of the time with a loot oriented lineup for each boss). add one bonus roll heroic item for each raider, 483 pvp and 489 vp/reputation gear and you are at ~487-489 itemlvl.

    dont compare these guys with people who killed less than 10 heroic bosses and without well thought out raidcomps.

  9. #9
    I think he wants to say how much more iLvL 25 man guilds got. Many people could've told you that, just the amount of coins (chances) you have in 25 man is really ridiculous. More chances on loot = more people pass on same loot = more people get wished loot overall. Aside from the whole alt-raid stuff it is pretty safe to say 25 mans got it easier this content - overall, not just loot wise.

    And this will only get worse, it is starting to rise and rise and will always be higher in 25 mans because of all those "they deserve more lootz for playing easier (in t14 so far) content".

    I also know that 25 man fanboys will come out of their holes and say wtf nub l2p u suck u dont know nothing. Just look wowprogress up and compare amount of guilds and then think about the numbers while also remembering that there are faaaaaar less 25 mans than 10 mans.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk
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    We are ranked like 65th in the US and I have probably the highest iLvL in my guild at 489 equipped. When you have an average item level across your entire 10 man that is a full or even half tier higher, well it makes a big difference.

    Not here to complain or anything just stating that the difference half to a full tier of gear makes on HPS/DPS is pretty large.

    Obviously there is a skill in play here and strategy that dictates who gets kills faster, but a lot of the game is based on gear and how quick you can obtain it. Getting lucky on the BMAH, having lots of gold in general and being able to put aside time to funnel gear to your core through alts and multiple runs does indeed give you a pretty large advantage.

    Again not complaining, but if you put in the time and organize yourself well you can have a pretty big advantage over guilds who simply VP cap and run an instance once for it's drops a week.

    Also iLvL is only half the story. Having more tier bonuses, trinkets and weapons is more is more important normally. Especially considering some tier bonuses are modeling at over 10k DPS increases lol.
    Last edited by Tojara; 2012-11-06 at 01:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Hmm, according to those numbers, Paragon right now is the only 10 man guild with average gear above even the 25s...
    Thats pretty wicked, those guys are amazing at everything

    Also 1-2 item level difference of the top 25s over the top 10 man was also to be expected.

    I must say i am pretty surprised that 7/15 10 mans are already above 489 threshold with only 2/15 under 487.
    Unless if the people from other guilds get extremely lucky in HoF heroic and Paragon totally unlucky with the drops, i see a clear world 1st for Paragon already. The gear gap plus the skill gap are totally impossible to be surpassed.

    As for the 25s? It is gonna be a tougher race again, those guys just don't give up

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