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  1. #1

    SimC and Affliction

    Hi!

    So I'm having trouble with SimC on my Affliction specced warlock.
    I've gotten the basics down on how to use SimC and I've done a few sims already trying to find out how I should gem and reforge.

    I keep seeing mastery being prioritized over haste on pretty much every site everywhere. Noxxic.com lists mastery winning over haste, same goes for Icy-veins, same goes for AskMrRobot. However, SimC says I should prioritze haste over mastery by alot! This confuses me! I don't really know what the hell to do.

    I haven't started raiding quite yet. Just the random LFRs and such. I have altough gotten some nice gear.
    My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Lyanthe/simple

    My problem is really trying to get my gear near perfect until I start raiding and getting my reforges and gems in order is a big part of that.

    Is SimC bugged by listing haste so superior to mastery or are these other sites not updated perhaps?

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    They way simcraft analysis stat weights is that it goes through and adds X amount of each stat and then looks to see how much damage you gained by doing so. If you are near a haste breakpoint there is a chance that there is a larger then normal dps increase and the value of haste will appear to be higher then normal.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZmFYa0E#gid=12

    Look at this spreadsheet and see if you are near any of the haste breakpoints listed, hit that point and then rerun the sim.

  3. #3
    I did a few sims just now and the one that turned up the highest dps increase was the one where I had the most haste.
    Unbuffed stats:

    DPS: 81323 dps
    Haste: 18.17%
    Hit: 9.29%
    Mastery: 51.83%

    DPS: 80906 dps
    Haste: 14.03%
    Hit: 9.29%
    Mastery: 60.95%

    The lower one here is where I have mastery gemmed and reforged and the upper is the one where I had haste prioritized.

    Going through that spreadsheet, I'm still above the 4717 haste breakpoint. But haste still sims higher than mastery.

  4. #4
    this is a small off topic mate but were did you find a quest in dread waste that gave you an epic ring :O?

  5. #5
    You get it for becoming exalted with the klaxxi

    OP it does sound like a haste breakpoint issue

  6. #6
    oh, i have heard that exalted lotus give a neck. does that mean shado pan and agustus give somethingh to? sry for this offtopic.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    a) Dont listen to those poeple talking about haste breakpoints. They dont exist in simcraft, as haste scales linearly.
    b) For me haste also scales better than mastery in simcraft and i think all the guides etc. are just WRONG. Because the simcraft model is very accurate for WL's.

    I did a lot of research about this and I realized that the value of Mastery goes up, the better my gear gets, so maybe all the guides just simmed with bis gear and then put the stat weights as general truth (which is not the optimum)

    I hope this helped,

    regards

  8. #8
    That does sound right since I did a plot sim aswell and the plots for haste, crit and mastery improved linearly. There was no "jump" in the dps increase at a certain point.
    But it still doesn't answer the question to how the gemming and reforging should be done since none of the guides follow the stat weights as SimC does and SimC doesn't really help with how to gem correctly.
    I could gem and reforge everything into haste and it would show mastery being prioritized and when I'd set those new stat weights into, say, ReforgeLite, I'd tell me I have to reforge away from all that haste I just reforged into. :/ I seem to have a hard time finding a balance.

  9. #9
    If you want to be as accurate a spossible you should use the reforge plot option that is available in simcraft

  10. #10
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    a) Dont listen to those poeple talking about haste breakpoints. They dont exist in simcraft, as haste scales linearly.
    b) For me haste also scales better than mastery in simcraft and i think all the guides etc. are just WRONG. Because the simcraft model is very accurate for WL's
    That isn't true. There are point in haste where you gain extra GCD's in a fight due to the duration of a dot gaining a tick and becoming longer. That is what the breakpoints do. They aren't sweeping changes in dps, but it is enough to tip scaling of a stat up and down slightly.

    What they don't do is make you gain 'extra' ticks in a fight, because the amount of ticks you have scales lineally.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2012-11-03 at 09:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    That isn't true. There are point in haste where you gain extra GCD's in a fight due to the duration of a dot gaining a tick and becoming longer. That is what the breakpoints do. They aren't sweeping changes in dps, but it is enough to tip scaling of a stat up and down slightly.

    What they don't do is make you gain 'extra' ticks in a fight, because the amount of ticks you have scales lineally.
    So, keeping that in mind. What's the breakpoints you're supposed to try to reach? Breakpoint for corruption or another DoT?

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliveNtrippin View Post
    So, keeping that in mind. What's the breakpoints you're supposed to try to reach? Breakpoint for corruption or another DoT?
    Most people are going for corruption breakpoints because they are fairly easy to obtain. But it isn't a matter of a hand and fast rule on what you 'should' do. It is going to be different based on gear \ trinkets. In MoP gear scaling for the most part is far closer then in the past which is why there is so many conflicting reports of what stat you should be going for. Some people might want to go for x haste, then master, other people strait mastery or haste.

  13. #13
    I spent an excessive amount of time simming different reforging setups and the 4198 (3736 for goblin) haste breakpoint simmed very slightly higher than the 4717 (4249 for goblin) haste breakpoint on a single target.

    4717 began outperforming 4198 when I added a second target, with an even bigger difference when I added even more targets.

    These two setups outperformed any other setup I tried (except for under-hit-cap setups, which I'm not comfortable with).

    In the end, the difference really isn't too major regardless of which setup you go with. If you feel like more haste or more mastery suits your play style more, then you'd probably end up doing better with that.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sockmaster View Post
    I spent an excessive amount of time simming different reforging setups and the 4198 (3736 for goblin) haste breakpoint simmed very slightly higher than the 4717 (4249 for goblin) haste breakpoint on a single target.

    4717 began outperforming 4198 when I added a second target, with an even bigger difference when I added even more targets.

    These two setups outperformed any other setup I tried (except for under-hit-cap setups, which I'm not comfortable with).

    In the end, the difference really isn't too major regardless of which setup you go with. If you feel like more haste or more mastery suits your play style more, then you'd probably end up doing better with that.
    Interesting. I actually tried reforging away some of my hit, down to about 9% which I actually had no problems with when testing it out in a few LFRs. Don't know if there's going to be a difference in normals but it felt ok.

    In turn, it freed me up to reforge some haste.

    I'm now up to about 6k haste and about the same in mastery. In SimC, with this, I get Int>SP>Haste=Mastery>Hit>Crit and in AskMrRobot it's about as optimized as it can get. Altought my DPS went from about 81,3k to 80,9k when I was reforging to about 7,7k haste.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    That isn't true. There are point in haste where you gain extra GCD's in a fight due to the duration of a dot gaining a tick and becoming longer. That is what the breakpoints do. They aren't sweeping changes in dps, but it is enough to tip scaling of a stat up and down slightly.

    What they don't do is make you gain 'extra' ticks in a fight, because the amount of ticks you have scales lineally.
    A dot never changes its duration. The only point where haste breakpoints come into play is when you let your dots run out. This doesnt happen when you single-target-dps. So haste breakpoints are not relevant when you use simcraft for Single target.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    A dot never changes its duration.
    You are wrong. The end.

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    A dot never changes its duration. The only point where haste breakpoints come into play is when you let your dots run out. This doesnt happen when you single-target-dps. So haste breakpoints are not relevant when you use simcraft for Single target.
    Umm...yes they do actually. That is how DoT scaling works.

    For example:

    Corruption has a base duration of 18s, as you gain more haste it start ticking faster thus lowering the duration. Once you get to certain haste points the dot is ticking fast enough to add in another tick, when it does it is at its longest possible duration.

    Because of the fact it gets pushed to a longer duration you have to refresh the DoT less times in a fight, thus freeing up a couple GCDS. That is what the haste breakpoints are.

    For instance in my pvp gear with 3463 haste corruption has a duration of 18.49s, in my pve gear with 5236 haste corruption has a duration of 17.81s. The difference isn't huge but it is a couple of extra casts when you are at the points when it has the longest duration.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2012-11-03 at 10:27 PM.

  18. #18
    I may be wrong here, but when i was playing a mage in Cata i thought the same thing, that the duration of my living bomb was extended, but i was told that the duration is the same, it just ticks faster and you get another thick before the FIXED duration runs out.

    example: Corruption deals 5000 damage every 5 seconds for 20 seconds. Increasing the haste will change it to: Corruption deals 5000 damage every 4 seconds for 20 seconds.

    Someone confirm or correct this, but thats what i was told when dealing with haste and living bombs.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aianos View Post
    I may be wrong here, but when i was playing a mage in Cata i thought the same thing, that the duration of my living bomb was extended, but i was told that the duration is the same, it just ticks faster and you get another thick before the FIXED duration runs out.

    example: Corruption deals 5000 damage every 5 seconds for 20 seconds. Increasing the haste will change it to: Corruption deals 5000 damage every 4 seconds for 20 seconds.

    Someone confirm or correct this, but thats what i was told when dealing with haste and living bombs.
    At 0 haste a dot that ticks every 5 for 20 seconds will last 20 seconds with exactly 5 ticks. As you gain haste, those ticks will occur faster and the overall duration will be shorter. However, at a certain point (referred to as haste breakpoints) you gain an extra tick. With that extra tick the dot goes back up to a 20 second duration and now ticks 6 times in that period of time. This repeats for as much haste as you have.

    Because of rounding the actual duration when it goes back up to full duration with 6 ticks is actually slightly longer than the duration at 0 haste.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    I assume your simming single target? on multi dot fights mastery comes way ahead for obvious reasons.

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