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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    HoF: Imperial Vizier Zor'lok 10m (Attenuation help)

    Hello folks,

    Tonight we started working on the first HoF boss and we did bring him down to 10%ish a few times but the problem is we have about 3 people taking sh*tloads of damage from the Attenuation discs. The rest of us do them with little fuss as we circle around the boss to get in between the safe spaces in the spiral but I just can't get these 3 DPS to get it right... And they've always been good raiders that never gave me trouble with this sort of fight and know I'm just at a loss...

    Did you encounter any problem of the sort? Did you find any video or easy way to explain this mechanic to them? I know I can just bench them and grab replacements but the replacements I have are Trial Raiders so I'd like to give these guys a last chance tomorrow, yet, if possible, I'd just like them to get the movement right.

    For the record, we're handling the MC and Force and Verve just fine with little trouble and every death we've had is these DPS getting hammered by the Attenuation discs and the healers also getting hit while trying to save them.

    Thanks!


  2. #2
    Are they standing at max melee range? If they're close to the walls they're going to be getting hit by the disks bouncing/splitting. If they're too close to the boss they won't be able to react in time.

    Personally I don't spiral the boss, I just stand at the edge of the hitbox and strafe a little now and then. You don't need to move all that much. Have my view point looking directly down as well.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Yea, I've told'em that a hundred times and that's why I'm baffled. I've raided before with these people and they were always fast to pick up the strategy and did execute it well, and now they seem to get totally confused with the spirals, to the point they kind of panic and can't "find" a way to avoid them and get hit by fuckloads (I saw one of them jump almost on top of the boss and getting hit by a dozen discs in a few seconds).

    Did you use any footage or image or whatever to help your guys get it right?


  4. #4
    Theres two easy ways to avoid them. The first is to sort of follow the discs around in a spiral, the second way is to just strafe left and right between them. The first way is alot easier for most people but both can be effective.

  5. #5
    We did this fight tonight. There is definitely a sweet spot closer to the boss that is easy to follow. Make sure your dps know that the discs can spiral either direction, it might be as simple as them thinking you should always run clockwise to avoid them.

  6. #6
    This mechanic is very simple, you move from the balls that comes for you. To teach someone to move their character is simply a to long and complicated matter to solve within the hours. The question should be if they have severe lagspikes when the balls spawn or they keyboard turn, if they do I can imagine it is a bit hard to be fast with moving since you have to turn and run at the same time, idk.
    If none of that is the reason, then they are just taking a piss sir. It can be because they don't think the mechanic hits hard enough to warrant movement or they just don't give a shit. Let's be honest here, this mechanic is on the same level as the mechanic on elegon when the floor vanishes.


    A good way to train raiders is to take them to the Temple of the jade serpent and let them do the water guy boss. Tell them they're not allowed to hit the water and you demand raid dps (well as high as they can without full buffs). Be realistic with them, if they get hit, tell them they're dead and wipe because that is what happens on the raidboss anyway.

  7. #7
    15-20 yards out from the boss is the sweet spot. Closer can get hit easily, 25 yards they start to split.

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  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Yea, I've told'em that a hundred times and that's why I'm baffled. I've raided before with these people and they were always fast to pick up the strategy and did execute it well, and now they seem to get totally confused with the spirals, to the point they kind of panic and can't "find" a way to avoid them and get hit by fuckloads (I saw one of them jump almost on top of the boss and getting hit by a dozen discs in a few seconds).

    Did you use any footage or image or whatever to help your guys get it right?
    They can't see the pattern. If they can't see the pattern, they will fail every time. So make a diagram. Show them the pinwheel pattern of the rings. You can't just make circles. You have to move in an arc toward the boss.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    They can't see the pattern. If they can't see the pattern, they will fail every time. So make a diagram. Show them the pinwheel pattern of the rings. You can't just make circles. You have to move in an arc toward the boss.
    No, you don't. You literally just circle around him. Aside from the visual being a spiral, at any given distance from the boss you can just circle clockwise or counter clockwise between the rings and be fine.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by theyanger View Post
    No, you don't. You literally just circle around him. Aside from the visual being a spiral, at any given distance from the boss you can just circle clockwise or counter clockwise between the rings and be fine.
    Don't do this if you're ranged, though. Too much hustle for no reward. I just stay mid-range and side-step left or right and get hit by 0 discs most of the time, never by more than 2, even if unlucky/unattentive - and I still find time to dish out some damage in between sidesteps.

  11. #11
    What helped me was to change my camera view to top-down when Attenuation started. Once I did that it was much easier to spot the pattern and spiral around. When our group had trouble with Attenuation we would have them stop DPSing and just avoid the rings - just for practice. By the end of the night this was the easiest platform for us.

  12. #12
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallowe View Post
    What helped me was to change my camera view to top-down when Attenuation started. Once I did that it was much easier to spot the pattern and spiral around. When our group had trouble with Attenuation we would have them stop DPSing and just avoid the rings - just for practice. By the end of the night this was the easiest platform for us.
    ^This

    Make sure you have the camera so you are looking at the floor, the pattern is really easy to see and I didn't have any trouble seeing if it was a clockwise or counterclockwise rotation (random spawn). The only problem I had was using LoD as holy pala during rings. Filled my screen so I couldn't see anything, still didn't get hit but can be dangerous with abilities that shoots stright into the air. People didn't like me for using it either.


  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Hello folks,

    Tonight we started working on the first HoF boss and we did bring him down to 10%ish a few times but the problem is we have about 3 people taking sh*tloads of damage from the Attenuation discs. The rest of us do them with little fuss as we circle around the boss to get in between the safe spaces in the spiral but I just can't get these 3 DPS to get it right... And they've always been good raiders that never gave me trouble with this sort of fight and know I'm just at a loss...

    Did you encounter any problem of the sort? Did you find any video or easy way to explain this mechanic to them? I know I can just bench them and grab replacements but the replacements I have are Trial Raiders so I'd like to give these guys a last chance tomorrow, yet, if possible, I'd just like them to get the movement right.

    For the record, we're handling the MC and Force and Verve just fine with little trouble and every death we've had is these DPS getting hammered by the Attenuation discs and the healers also getting hit while trying to save them.

    Thanks!
    We had the same issue. We run a 25 group and there were about 2-3 people who, no matter what advice you gave them, died every single time. We finally got it last night but still had a few deaths. For the platforms, we left the people who were just unable to avoid them dead until the platform switch. Battle rez and then move on to ground phase. From there, it was a matter of killing him before too many died from AOE or orbs. As a Holy Pally, I would pop my bubble and try to heal people who were getting hit for at least 1 phase. Healers cant do much to save people because if they stand still, they are as good as dead as well but it can be done.

    Best advice would be to switch dps if they are crippling your progress. While I know they may be normals, you have to do whats best for progress. We had to do it for 1-2 people.

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  14. #14
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    My raid group is having similar problems.

    But rather then it being on the platform it is during phase 4. No one is dying flat out from the rings, but they are definitely contributing to the deaths.
    Half of our wipes felt like RNG while the other half were mistakes people had while learning.

    MC two of our healers straight into a Bubble. Bubble straight into Attenuation so people are still low but the healers have to move and so it is more difficult for them to raise health bars.

    Here's an question that I have always wondered about. When using WoL's to see who is getting hit by what ability, how do you separate who is actually failing to avoid the ability, and who is just standing in it to die.

    I died zero times from the rings while we were attempting the fight, but I took quite a bit of damage purposefully standing in them to wipe up when too many people died to continue. Is there any other way to distinguish between the two of these, other then manually selecting the time period up until we decided to wipe for each attempt?

  15. #15
    It's not that hard to look at each attempt and see who died before it was a wipe.

  16. #16
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theyanger View Post
    It's not that hard to look at each attempt and see who died before it was a wipe.
    Agreed, but we are to the point where not many people are actually dying to it. I just want to know who is taking to much unnecessary damage from them. I would just watch health bars during attenuation but my dps would suffer pretty severely because of it (still getting used to Kil'jaeden's Cunning as affliction).

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral rawhammer's Avatar
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    If they really cant do it, then you may consider HoP ing them (clemency is a useful talent to pick up for pallies).

    One of our locks dc'd midfight during this phase last night and a timely HoP from me meant he took no damage.

    Just a thought.
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  18. #18
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    As everyone else has said, there is 2 methods. If they cannot pick up either one with ease they have a real issue going on. I would talk to each of them and try to get them on board and understand. If they still cannot grasp the concept, unfortunately I think you might have to put them on the bench until they can get it straitened out.

  19. #19
    Camera max distance macro and top-down view. Hell you don't even need that as melee, just be 5 or so yards away and circle-strafe while doing your full rotation.

    Honestly it's the easiest mechanic in the fight since people can take zero damage. Unless people derp, it's a nice regen time for healers. I always get happy when he bugs out on the Attenuation platform and sits there until 75%.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 03:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    If they really cant do it, then you may consider HoP ing them (clemency is a useful talent to pick up for pallies).

    One of our locks dc'd midfight during this phase last night and a timely HoP from me meant he took no damage.

    Just a thought.
    Maybe if there's a DC but people need to learn how to do the mechanic. Those HoPs are better used on Force & Verve.

  20. #20
    they move really slow if you cant get it by the third time i dont know what to say go in the direction the opening is and go in a slow circle

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