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  1. #1

    Prot Pala in normal Will of the emperor

    My friend is having trouble at will of the emperor, mostly the healers are having problems healing him...
    We mostly avoid all the arcs and we get all the strikes in...
    Still he sometimes gets 2 shot by the boss and healers complain its impossible to heal him... even with 3 healers he just drops down really fast before healers can heal it up... I've always considered him a good tank but dunno whats happening.

    ILvl 477
    Strength 9520
    Mastery 16.5%
    Hit 7.5%
    Expertise 13%
    Health 490000
    Armor 52500
    Parry 11.50%
    Dodge 6% with 2 dodge cds trinkets

    I have worst gear but take a bit less damage and i'm a lot less spiky. I can get a resto druid to heal me and the raid while focusing a shaman or hpriest or even the said rdruid on him they cant keep him up....

    Its it an issue with the class? lacking the cds? or just bad cd rotation from his side?

    Asking ppl who did the fight if there are any tips I can get... Unfortunately no WoL

    Elegon is easy for us... With 3 healers we can get to enrage and wipe at around 5%... still its hard to get there with even 3 heals since he dies a lot... If we could keep him up with 2 healers we would kill it around the 3rd gas easily...
    Last edited by elderamy; 2012-11-06 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    Can you provide armory link? Those mastery/parry/dodge valies looks rather strange...
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  3. #3
    he is on dps gear atm, plus don't want to name/shame...
    anw he was reforging to hit/exp This values are unbuffed!
    he uses str pot...
    Last edited by elderamy; 2012-11-06 at 12:25 PM.

  4. #4
    Well our pala tank also reforged to hit/exp, We're 2 healing it and i have to say he is easily healed, Personal player issue tbh

  5. #5
    They do seem a tad lower than I've been able to get, that combined with the HP values has me wonder what kinda gear/ gems he has.

    HP wise, seems way too low, I recently just gemmed out of stamina and I still have more than 490 unbuffed.

    I recommend going double stamina trinkets if spiking is a issue, we recently got our first kill and I was sitting on around 610k buffed (with only 1 sta trinket) I'd prolly need both now. They tend to hurt a lot, if he's failing the devasting combos alot he will die, If he can keep the debff stack to less than 2, it shouldn't overly affect his survivability but he needs to be ideally dodging all of it. Without a log it's hard to tell what's happening.


    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    he is on dps gear atm, plus don't want to name/shame...
    anw he was reforging to hit/exp This values are unbuffed!
    he uses str pot...
    STR pot is fine, the tank pots are crap anyway, STR flask is a nono, STA all the way, same with food, maybe expertise/hit.

    Reforging hit/exp is the control build, there is nothing wrong with that, my values of hit and expertise are very similar
    Last edited by Lastwolf; 2012-11-06 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #6
    he was gemming mastery/exp...

    any help i can give him? like wich cds to use at what point? I don't know paladins that well :S

  7. #7
    I don't know if we two-heal or three-heal emps, I do know we two-heal elegon. Damage only really feels a bit out-of-hand if I derp the dance before a gas phase.

    I tend to use Holy Avenger during Titan Gas, it makes ShoR be up for most of the phase
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastwolf View Post
    They do seem a tad lower than I've been able to get, that combined with the HP values has me wonder what kinda gear/ gems he has.

    HP wise, seems way too low, I recently just gemmed out of stamina and I still have more than 490 unbuffed.

    I recommend going double stamina trinkets if spiking is a issue, we recently got our first kill and I was sitting on around 610k buffed (with only 1 sta trinket) I'd prolly need both now. They tend to hurt a lot, if he's failing the devasting combos alot he will die, If he can keep the debff stack to less than 2, it shouldn't overly affect his survivability but he needs to be ideally dodging all of it. Without a log it's hard to tell what's happening.
    he has 2 dodge use trinkets (darkmoon/brewfest)... personally they help me loads...dunno about him... hoping he is using them correctly...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    he was gemming mastery/exp...

    any help i can give him? like wich cds to use at what point? I don't know paladins that well :S
    Again that's fine, I prefer haste myself but it's personal preference. he should mastery+ stam in any blue slots, get those HP figures up. The damage received go up during gas phases, so I'd save any major CD's for then, glyph Divine Purpose otherwise it's mostly useless in this fight.

    How much damage did he do with Opportunistic Strike ?

  10. #10
    It also sounds like your raid dps might be a bit on the low side, if the adds aren't dying fast enough healers can get overwhelmed with healing the dps and the tanks.
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  11. #11
    Yea, our first kill (second week) my damage taken (as a prot pally about 473 ilvl at the time) was a bit spiky, but nothing as extreme as getting 2shot. Our holy pally just focused on me that first kill.
    Now, in 480 ilvl gear getting hit/exp cap then gemming haste, my damage taken is much smoother and healers have no trouble keeping me up (3 healing).

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 08:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    he is on dps gear atm, plus don't want to name/shame...
    anw he was reforging to hit/exp This values are unbuffed!
    he uses str pot...
    Also, that's fair enough, but ideally, we can help him out more if we could see his actual gear. It's understandable that people can be ignorant about certain aspects of their class/gearing and receive some trolling or whatever, but its not shameful to be ignorant about it and most people will be decent and provide constructive criticism.
    Last edited by thatfireguy; 2012-11-06 at 12:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    It also sounds like your raid dps might be a bit on the low side, if the adds aren't dying fast enough healers can get overwhelmed with healing the dps and the tanks.
    well going 3 healers we loose our best dps... Still most of the dps is very decent for our gear levels! And we didnt have any issues with adds!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    he has 2 dodge use trinkets (darkmoon/brewfest)... personally they help me loads...dunno about him... hoping he is using them correctly...

    The only use dodge isn't that dramatically good, I'd use them on gas phases but generally it's not that big a deal it won't up survivability all that much, Dodge is pretty much the worst tanking stat in terms of importance for a paladin and the up time will be pretty dire, if you have it, great but we'd prefer other stats.

    I use the Relic of Niuzao and the Brewmaster stamina trinket if I need the HP, mileage my vary.


    Seriously look at how much damage he's doing in that fight with opportunistic strike, that should tell you how well he's handling the devastating combo's I did terrible in our first kill and I managed 3.5 million dmg (7 full avoiding all strikes), for reference the other tank did almost twice that.
    Last edited by Lastwolf; 2012-11-06 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #14
    At what part is he dying? Normal phase, Titan Gas or both?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastwolf View Post
    How much damage did he do with Opportunistic Strike ?
    don't have the dps numbers with me since recount doesn't work that good when were far from each other... But healers were controling that and he was mostly avoiding all... maybe missing 1 or 2 in a 16+ try

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 12:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorlox View Post
    At what part is he dying? Normal phase, Titan Gas or both?
    i guess it was... both, but mostly on titan...
    can he have a major cd up at all the titan phases? wich one?

  16. #16
    Holy Avenger should be ready for each Titan Gas, and cover about 24 seconds of the 30 second duration.
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  17. #17
    no point in going full Expertise if he aint gonna get 15% its either 7.5 OR 15% not 13 as theres no benefit and rest seem fine ( cant see haste) so its seems more his fault or healers he has to be using his own CDs as often as possible Will hits like a truck

  18. #18
    Well, the way I do it, on the titan gas phases, is that as a prot Paladin you can always use Holy Avenger for that, cd matches perfectly.

    And with that up I can keep my SoR buff running thru the entire titan gas, I even call for healers to focus the other tank more cause I can take care of myself, especially when I tie Holy Avenger with Guardian.

    For the other times when I take spiky damage I just make sure to Pop DP or AD and hopefully have a few bastion stacks to use to heal myself WoG. Paladins have a very strong self healing kit atm.

    Oh, and if he's using Sacred Shield, make sure to tell him to recast it as soon as they start the Dance phase, the Arcs, he'll have the highest vengeance at that point.

    And, here's a WoL of my last kill: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nc...?s=4665&e=5186

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Crabby View Post
    no point in going full Expertise if he aint gonna get 15% its either 7.5 OR 15% not 13 as theres no benefit and rest seem fine ( cant see haste) so its seems more his fault or healers he has to be using his own CDs as often as possible Will hits like a truck
    Of course there is a benefit to getting 13% expertise over 7.5%. It reduces your chance to be parried to only 2% instead of 7.5%.
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    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Crabby View Post
    no point in going full Expertise if he aint gonna get 15% its either 7.5 OR 15% not 13 as theres no benefit and rest seem fine ( cant see haste) so its seems more his fault or healers he has to be using his own CDs as often as possible Will hits like a truck
    Well, actually, as it's been proven that capping hit and hard capping expertise smooths overall damage, even if you're not hard capped with expertise, your damage taken will still be smoother than someone who's only got 7.5%. Although 13% is not the optimal value, its not wasted stats.

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