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  1. #1
    The Patient Anthonian's Avatar
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    Wowreforge or Askmrrobot?

    During Cataclysm I always used Wowreforge for all my reforging needs. It always got me to hit cap and the stat weights were correct. After the MoP launch it took a while before they updated it so I started using Askmrrobot. Now that wowreforge is up and running I'm not sure which one I want to use. I'm more comfortable with wowreforge but can see the added benefits of askmrrobot.

    Some of my concerns regarding both:

    1) Wowreforge doesn't do near as well of a job looking at gems and enchants. It solely looks at reforge. This may or may not be a problem due to...

    2) Askmrrobot wants me to do weird things with gems. I'm a shadow priest and it currently has me gemming a a green haste and spirit gem and a yellow haste gem. Everything I read is telling me to stick with the good old purple in blue, orange in yellow, red unless bonus is a shit ton of intell. So, needless to say, I'm a little nervous about the gemming.

    3) Wowreforge always put me at the hit cap, if not a little over (like .04%). Askmrrobot currently has me .11% below the hit cap. I've read the blog post they recently put up about the increase in DPS in reforging to another stat even if it has you under hit cap and have seen all the math but, again, I'm just a little nervous about being under hit cap. I don't like to see the word Miss show up when I'm raiding. The same math is what they use to make me gem the way I described above but my concerns remain.

    So, am I just looking in to it too much or do I have some valid concerns? What do you guys use? I'd feel better doing the funky shit askmrrobot asks me to do if I knew others trusted it as well. I'm just trying to get a feel from you all. Thanks for reading!

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Resania's Avatar
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    Well myself I would never play under hit cap (playing fire mage) I think it might depend on your class really because I recall as arcane you could drop slightly below hit cap in favor of other stats since nothing really changed if you missed an AB, but the thougt of missing a combustion as fire.

    Sadly wowreforge don't account for the fact expertise = hit (unless it had a very recent update).
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  3. #3
    My personal preference is wowreforge, but this is because I also use SimCraft and like tinkering with my gems / enchants as well as working to specific values (such as the hit cap). Askmrrobot will give you what it calculates to be the highest dps, and while I don't have enough knowledge to despite the maths behind it's conclusions I disagree with what it asks me to do.

    Very smart people have previously calculated that "the odds of missing" vs "the increased dps when you don't" means that it's better to be at around 15% spell hit cap (this was true for warlocks during Cata, at least).
    Last edited by TobiasX; 2012-10-25 at 12:31 PM.

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  4. #4
    I use reforge-lite, works awesome.
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  5. #5
    I like Askmrrobot, you can tweak your stats' weights however you like, they give you a pre-set stat weight for whatever class you play, you can pick any piece of gear / gem / enchant and see how it affects your character. I tried wowreforge once and it didn't even realize I had a Hit enchant and Exp enchant.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Tikaru's Avatar
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    I can handle my own gems and enchants, since there's very little I can screw up. Wowreforge is awesome for finding the best way to reforge my gear so I don't go over the hit/exp cap and "waste" stats.

  7. #7
    The Patient Anthonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikaru View Post
    I can handle my own gems and enchants, since there's very little I can screw up. Wowreforge is awesome for finding the best way to reforge my gear so I don't go over the hit/exp cap and "waste" stats.
    This has generally been my outlook too. I know what gems and enchants to use and just don't want to have to use a spreadsheet to do the math when it comes to reforging. Since I never gem for hit I let my reforging take care of that. Wowreforge lets me account for my haste soft cap so I'm thinking I'm starting to lean back towards that.

  8. #8
    Anthonian, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and wanted to help. I've seen this question come up a LOT in the past few days because we added the 24.97% haste breakpoint in our recent update. A LOT of people's gear can't reach that breakpoint yet, including you. Mr. Robot is trying REALLY hard to get you there, which is why he puts in the haste gems.

    It looks like the next lowest breakpoint you'll want is 9.99%. I edited the breakpoint for you here. As you can see, he's back to the orange, purple and red gems you were expecting
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  9. #9
    Did rawr die?

  10. #10
    Old God Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Anthonian, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and wanted to help. I've seen this question come up a LOT in the past few days because we added the 24.97% haste breakpoint in our recent update. A LOT of people's gear can't reach that breakpoint yet, including you. Mr. Robot is trying REALLY hard to get you there, which is why he puts in the haste gems.

    It looks like the next lowest breakpoint you'll want is 9.99%. I edited the breakpoint for you here. As you can see, he's back to the orange, purple and red gems you were expecting
    Well it's also telling feral druids to gem for strength which seems to have no explanation. I feel overall very uncomfortable with the suggestions it provides, considering that looking at the math for my stat weights as a guardian it has me reforge one piece from exp to haste, then another from haste to exp...resulting in almost equivalent values.

    I would really like to believe mrrobot, but a lot of things don't jive with reforge, noxxic, EJ, or druid spreadsheets as a whole.

  11. #11
    I use simcraft and then put that in wowreforge. AMR seems to do weird things like getting me below melee hit and exp cap. I do use AMR to quickly look at potential upgrades though. If AMR had an option to force reforge above hit/exp caps, I would probably use it instead.

  12. #12
    I'll probably give wow reforge a try, I can handle my gems and enchants myself but sitting there for like 20 minutes trying to hit exp and hit cap nearly bankrupts my main all the time then I have to go send more money and all that jazz. But then again I guess askmrrobot would work just as well seeing as how i'm an enhance shaman currently though I always like to be a little over than under.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 03:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    I use simcraft and then put that in wowreforge. AMR seems to do weird things like getting me below melee hit and exp cap. I do use AMR to quickly look at potential upgrades though. If AMR had an option to force reforge above hit/exp caps, I would probably use it instead.
    You could probably put the caps for those a little above the actual hit cap.
    Last edited by mmines; 2012-10-25 at 07:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Murderdoll's Avatar
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    I look at some of the things Mr Robot wants me to do as Enhance and say to myself "YOU WANT ME TO DO WHAT?!?!"

    I think its a good tool if you need a bit of an idea if youre on the right track. I dont use it as an absolute decision maker.

    However, Last expansion I used it for tanking reforges and it was magnificent.
    Last edited by Murderdoll; 2012-10-25 at 08:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Immortal Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSageCorban View Post
    Did rawr die?
    As usual it's useless for the first year of the expansion, I did try to use it a bit and it does some things right but tonnes of things are way off.

    --

    As for AskMr Robot, you can lock your gems/enchants and whatnot if you don't like what it does.

  15. #15
    I always used wowreforge, but it stopped working for me at the start of this expansion and I ended up switching to reforgelite, which has worked great Some minor problems that the old wowreforge didn't have, but it's mostly all good.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Kiry's Avatar
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    I use reforge lite for reforging but askmrrobot for general ideas. Except, AMR seems to not want to work with expertise as a caster. So it tells me to remove my expertise gems and enchants.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    I look at some of the things Mr Robot wants me to do as Enhance and say to myself "YOU WANT ME TO DO WHAT?!?!"

    I think its a good tool if you need a bit of an idea if youre on the right track. I dont use it as an absolute decision maker.

    However, Last expansion I used it for tanking reforges and it was magnificent.
    Agreed on it being kind of bunk for enhance. Very frequently it'll just aim for getting me to the spell hit cap, without regard for whether I have both the melee hit and expertise caps as well (giving me 7.6% hit and 7.4% expertise, for example).

    Wowreforge is getting better; a few days ago it didn't take into account a +hit socket bonus, but when I reforged last night it seems to have. I imagine once they finish updating all the enchants and such, it'll be solid again. I generally use both for different reasons; Mr. Robot tells me how much of an upgrade a particular item is (absolute or relative to my current gear), and Wowreforge gives me multiple reforging paths to get to where I need to be.

  18. #18
    Kiry, what's your character name and realm? I want to check it out and see what Mr. Robot is doing.

    Murderdoll - can you also give me your char name and realm, along with what suggestions you think are weird?
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I'm using AMR but actually reforge based on the WW spec instead of BrM as it brings me closer to the hit/expertise cap where I want to be.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  20. #20
    I use askmrrobot to find gear upgrades, but it seems unreliable for reforging. It tells me to do weird things like reforge haste to mastery on one piece of gear, and then reforge mastery to haste on another piece. What would be the point of that?

    Maybe I should give wowreforge a try.

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