Thread: Hit cap?

  1. #1
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Posts
    253

    Hit cap?

    So several times I have come here and gotten great feed back. I have used it to improve myself and my play style in many ways. But I still feel like I drag the raid group down.


    As said before, I have only been playing this spec for about a month and doing everything I can to improve myself. It seems that the more comfortable I am with the fight, the better I do on the fight. I am sure that this is with anyone really so it's a moot point.

    So pretty much, here is the story. Trying to get my reforging right. I have run simcraft over and over and gotten my stat weights. Which I then in put into ask mr robot to try and fix. And the stat weights are putting me at under hit cap.

    Now next, I look at Zoomkins from Blood legion and he is running at 14 percent hit. I am so confused on this. Is the 1 percent of extra stats from missing the hit worth the few wasted GCDs? Also I know that you shouldn't look at top tier players and model yourself after them to a tee because well, they high end progression and try and squeeze every bit out and it's their play style for that kind of progression.

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...urish/advanced (as said above, m reforging is all over the place as i was trying to get my hit to a good place)

  2. #2
    the hit cap is 5100 rating. I also do not recommend mr robot if you want to be hit capped. Go to wowreforge.com and it'll get you hit capped with better stats too. I'm not sure about the 1% under hit cap thing with zoomkins though, sorry.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-11-06 at 05:46 PM.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  3. #3
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Posts
    253
    Yea I know hit cap is 15 percent. And that's where the issue is coming from. Trying to in put stat weights (which i can only really find by doing simcraft since I have found no posted stat weights any where) and get the closest i can to the 15 percent.

    BUT, big BUT here, from what I am seeing from several dot classes they are going under hit cap in favor of secondary stats.

  4. #4
    As with zoomkins, he recently got a new neck (with crit and haste), so I assume the reason he is not hit capped is because he hasn't reforged after receiving his last item.

    In the vast majority of situations and boss fights, you'll want to make sure you're hit capped. I can give you plenty examples of why that is the case, but it's quite obvious, really - Casting the last spell before an eclipse and switching will mean you pretty much "lose" two casts and so on.

    Gear-wise, you should swap your JC-only gems to intellect if you can still reach the haste "cap" - as they don't give twice the amount of stats, like int JC gems do (160 -> 320 int, 320 -> 480 crit/haste). Also, again only if possible, you should always reforge away mastery if it is present on your items. And you're missing two socket bonuses.

    The biggest DPS increase you'll find will probably be to learn the fights properly - like you mentioned, - reduce movement as much as possible (or move beforehand when you're DoTing if it's predictable) and manage/optimise your cooldown usage as best you can.

    OT: I am finding myself at 15.00% hit, even at 5099 hit rating, anyone else experienced this?
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  5. #5
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Posts
    253
    I was under the impression that SP wasn't as highly valued as crit/haste which is why I was going for the haste JC gems over the int

    and perhaps you are finding yourself at 15.00% due to the amount of pvp gear you are wearing.
    Last edited by silentkillin; 2012-11-06 at 06:10 PM.

  6. #6
    No, I mean that at times where I've had 5099 rating and still been hit capped, I know I'm a tad over it at the moment.

    The reason we favor crit over intellect for gemming is because 2 crit > 1 intellect, and with regular gems, secondary stats are doubled. However, that is not the case for JC-specific gems, and so you'll want to have those as intellect gems, if possible. JC is not in a good place for moonkins at the moment, but unless you're really min-maxing it'll be fine.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 07:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by silentkillin View Post
    I was under the impression that SP wasn't as highly valued as crit/haste which is why I was going for the haste JC gems over the int

    and perhaps you are finding yourself at 15.00% due to the amount of pvp gear you are wearing.
    You shouldn't "blindly" compare balance to other DoT-specs, because they work differently. Were it only for our DoTs, we may not have wanted the hit cap as badly, but with how eclipse works - it's important for us not to miss at the wrong time.
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  7. #7
    Not sure about Moonkins, but the prevailing logic behind DOT classes being able to sit a bit under the hit cap is that, once a DOT is on the target, the ticks can't miss. I've seen Shadow Priests that sat 2-3% below the hit cap in Cata and did perfectly fine. I personally try to stay between 0-0.5% percent below the hit cap, because I HATE missing, so the gain of ~0.5-1% in another stat (even haste) isn't really worth it to me. Again, this is for Spriest, but I've seen it applied to other DOT classes. Your mileage may vary, go with what works for you, etc. etc. etc.

  8. #8
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by Zareth View Post
    No, I mean that at times where I've had 5099 rating and still been hit capped, I know I'm a tad over it at the moment.

    The reason we favor crit over intellect for gemming is because 2 crit > 1 intellect, and with regular gems, secondary stats are doubled. However, that is not the case for JC-specific gems, and so you'll want to have those as intellect gems, if possible. JC is not in a good place for moonkins at the moment, but unless you're really min-maxing it'll be fine.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 07:16 PM ----------



    You shouldn't "blindly" compare balance to other DoT-specs, because they work differently. Were it only for our DoTs, we may not have wanted the hit cap as badly, but with how eclipse works - it's important for us not to miss at the wrong time.
    I'm not blindly doing anything. If I was I wouldn't be coming here asking for more information on it. The fact that I even posted the thread asking for other players advice would seem to be anything but doing something blindly.

    Also i would assume that our dots are much like other dot classes. Other dot classes refresh their dots during periods of increased haste and spell power buffs which is much like when we are in our eclipses. Seeing as our empowered dots do more damage during such phases is much like a warlocks dots doing more damage during trinket procs or class specific buffs.

    And seeing as how casting out dots do not move us in either direction with in our phases I would wager to say that our dots are pretty close to similar to other dot classes. If you are referring to our "Shooting Star" procs, then I can understand it some what, but a GCD of reapplying a dot if missed will be just as bad for any other dot class.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by silentkillin View Post
    I'm not blindly doing anything. If I was I wouldn't be coming here asking for more information on it. The fact that I even posted the thread asking for other players advice would seem to be anything but doing something blindly.

    Also i would assume that our dots are much like other dot classes. Other dot classes refresh their dots during periods of increased haste and spell power buffs which is much like when we are in our eclipses. Seeing as our empowered dots do more damage during such phases is much like a warlocks dots doing more damage during trinket procs or class specific buffs.

    And seeing as how casting out dots do not move us in either direction with in our phases I would wager to say that our dots are pretty close to similar to other dot classes. If you are referring to our "Shooting Star" procs, then I can understand it some what, but a GCD of reapplying a dot if missed will be just as bad for any other dot class.
    I meant no offense with the quotation of blindly - I was just trying to say that even though we are a DoT class, we do not function quite like most of the others. As for the matter at hand, I agree that the DoTs themselves don't make us require the hit cap to optimise DPS, but to get to the stage where they are empowered, you must cast Starfires/Wraths, and if they miss then the eclipse is delayed. This also means the chance for our DoTs to run out while outside an eclipse increases, and the DoT uptime is reduced, or we'll have inferior DoTs running, while as - say a shadow priest - could just re-DoT regardless. Yes, there are trinkets, procs etc that increase their DoTs, but that counts for us, too. The difference is that the damage increase from an eclipse (procs added on top of that) results in a much bigger disparity than it would for other DoT classes.
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zareth View Post
    No, I mean that at times where I've had 5099 rating and still been hit capped, I know I'm a tad over it at the moment.

    The reason we favor crit over intellect for gemming is because 2 crit > 1 intellect, and with regular gems, secondary stats are doubled. However, that is not the case for JC-specific gems, and so you'll want to have those as intellect gems, if possible. JC is not in a good place for moonkins at the moment, but unless you're really min-maxing it'll be fine.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 07:16 PM ----------



    You shouldn't "blindly" compare balance to other DoT-specs, because they work differently. Were it only for our DoTs, we may not have wanted the hit cap as badly, but with how eclipse works - it's important for us not to miss at the wrong time.
    The hit discrepancy is most likely because at 5099 rating you are at 14.9970588235% hit rather than 15% with 5100. So I'm not sure what would happen if you were at 5099 rating rather than 5100.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by silentkillin View Post
    Yea I know hit cap is 15 percent. And that's where the issue is coming from. Trying to in put stat weights (which i can only really find by doing simcraft since I have found no posted stat weights any where) and get the closest i can to the 15 percent.

    BUT, big BUT here, from what I am seeing from several dot classes they are going under hit cap in favor of secondary stats.
    For say, affliction, it is a dps gain to go to hit cap, but with the nature of how hit-plays with dots it isn't as essential as it is for a nuke-class.

    Basically, once the dot is on the target, every tick has a 100% chance to hit. Most dot classes have a mechanic that lets the refresh their dots (Adding time onto the existing dot over and above the usual duration), giving them a gigantic window to refresh their dots.

    As a boomkin, who's about 50/50. you need hit cap.

    Your stat priorities should be:
    Int,
    Hit/Spirit/Expertise to hit cap (15%)
    Haste to breakpoint (5273 Haste Rating) (which adds 3 extra ticks to moonfire/sunfire)
    Crit
    Mastery

    Your gems are close.

    Once you get a better caster MH, your damage should increase significantly.

    I'd also play with your gems to get some of your socket bonuses. I know it's not really how it worked in Cata, but there's a lot of places on your armory where if you swapped two of your gems from part a to part b, you get free spirit. (which means you can start pulling it out of other places.)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    The hit discrepancy is most likely because at 5099 rating you are at 14.9970588235% hit rather than 15% with 5100. So I'm not sure what would happen if you were at 5099 rating rather than 5100.
    I once had 5101 and it still showed a round 15.00% as well.

    Also armory doesn't support Expertise for casters so check if the people have Exp reforged. ( Exp = Spell Hit)

    wowreforge.com doesn't recognize the +80 chest enchant so make sure if you have it to change the cap to 5020.

  13. #13
    If you get higher stat weights from SimulationCraft for some secondary stat than for hit, it really is worth more, and for the time being you would be advised to stay below the hit cap and increase the higher other stat first. And just to anticipate: SimC does take into account a pretty steep reaction time realising you missed, once you do miss when applying a dot. It won't instantly recast the dot, but usually only 1 gcd later ( and if you have a castable, non-instant dot that will result in even more downtime ). All of this is taken into account when calculating stat weights, but hit is still below some other stats for some dot classes in certain circumstances.

    In practice you really should ask yourself if it is worth to maybe loose 200-300 dps ( which is 0.1-1% of your dps ) by being fully hit-caped, but never having to worry again about misses, freeing up a lot of concentration for other things you might need when raiding. And there's of course also a difference between sitting at 13% hit because you just aren't able to get more, and deliberately reforging out of hit.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •