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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    This only shows that you have the wrong people in the wrong place, there is nothing you can do about and however many hours you spend on any forum talking about it will not change it.
    Wrong. Same mentality that keeps a bad status quo in everything. If you don't use any platform available to speak out, nothing can be changed. We've already seen a direct impact of complaining about some F2P issues be changed almost immediately. And don't use *this* board as some special excuse like no one reads them. You can't have a special utopia on MMO champion, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    As for a reason why SWTOR still has 500k + Subscriber which looks very little next to WoW, SWTOR is no new gen mmo and people playing WoW have very little reason to change their game, especially as they proofed that they have a very very low acceptance regarding graphical aspects
    This is a poor excuse for an explanation. If this game was great, people would play it regardless of what it looked like. It looks better than WoW and everything that isn't TERA or GW2.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostea23 View Post
    The one addon I look for in a game is: the Auction House [in this case GTN] addon that basically works like Auctionator: simple interface, scans the market, gives you tooltip feedback on the current market value of your items, and shows the competitors currently listed so that you can set the price accordingly. Absolute #1 want-to-have in any game that employs a player auction house market system.
    You would not believe how many people absolutely tore that idea apart when I posted it on the SWTOR forums. It was like I suggested killing puppies and kittens.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 08:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I think the point is that if you want to find things to do and be happy with the game, you will, and rather easily.

    If you want to quit the game and be unhappy, you will do that as well, and find good reason to do so.

    If you want to sit on forums and complain about things, you will do that also.
    Totally agree with this. It also seems like a lot of folks were just waiting for F2P. But when it was offered they did a victory dance, like they'd just slain a dragon (by doing nothing but tearing apart the game on forums). Then they realized that they didn't get the whole game for free, and decided to keep bitching about it. It's like they won't be happy until their "victory" is complete.
    Last edited by Parrin; 2012-11-13 at 02:23 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    Totally agree with this. It also seems like a lot of folks were just waiting for F2P. But when it was offered they did a victory dance, like they'd just slain a dragon (by doing nothing but tearing apart the game on forums). Then they realized that they didn't get the whole game for free, and decided to keep bitching about it. It's like they won't be happy until their "victory" is complete.
    You either aren't reading what people are saying or willfully misinterpreting it.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    You either aren't reading what people are saying or willfully misinterpreting it.
    Dude, you're totally the exception (I thought everyone knew that).

    Seriously, though, you've got your items and your budget worked out for the game. It's going to leave you with a few extra bucks compared with the subs, and you're just a little upset that it doesn't offer the same experience, since you're not playing the entire game. That's understandable. That's not the complaints that I'm referring to.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    Dude, you're totally the exception (I thought everyone knew that).

    Seriously, though, you've got your items and your budget worked out for the game. It's going to leave you with a few extra bucks compared with the subs, and you're just a little upset that it doesn't offer the same experience, since you're not playing the entire game. That's understandable. That's not the complaints that I'm referring to.
    Fair enough.

    Most the complaints I see on this board, as I do not wade into the massive pool of donkey shit that is the official boards, are that the f2p model is either not comprehensive enough or the function base restrictions will piss off new players.

    Very few regulars here are upset that the game isn't really "free".

    I can not speak for the other boards though...
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  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I think the point is that if you want to find things to do and be happy with the game, you will, and rather easily.

    If you want to quit the game and be unhappy, you will do that as well, and find good reason to do so.

    If you want to sit on forums and complain about things, you will do that also.
    And if you want to see the game thrive and grow, providing an experience that's enjoyable for everyone and is competitive with other MMO's in the market, yet can't see that happening in the current model?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    And if you want to see the game thrive and grow, providing an experience that's enjoyable for everyone and is competitive with other MMO's in the market, yet can't see that happening in the current model?
    I think I know the answer!

    You discuss and vent your concerns on other forums (since we can't post on the official ones).
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    Then they realized that they didn't get the whole game for free, and decided to keep bitching about it. It's like they won't be happy until their "victory" is complete.
    It's like you think that a) people are only asking for more free things, which is a fallacy and b) that giving the game away 'for free' wouldn't have been better for the business.

    I guess your views on 'a' directly effect your inability to rationalize 'b'. If you look at the rest of the current F2P market, you will see that it's just a matter of saying it doesn't add up.

    It's like if a pizza place gave out free pizza, but charged $5 for a thing of napkins, $2 for a drink, $3 for pepper and parm. You don't really need the extra things to enjoy the pizza, but it will make the experience a lot better. This is traditional F2P. Some of them will even give you a free drink and napkins if you make your own pizza.

    This model started out at saying "we're going to give you free pizza", which meant they were going to give you uncooked dough with raw toppings. Oh you want that cooked? That will be 1K cartel coins. Oh you wanted it to not have arsenic on it? That's another 1K cartel coins. Oh PS, you owe us 1K cartel coins for using the door to the left instead of the door on the right..and you stepped on the carpet with your shoes on, that's another 1k coins. And also, you can never ever have hamburger on your pizza. That's only for full price customers.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    And if you want to see the game thrive and grow, providing an experience that's enjoyable for everyone and is competitive with other MMO's in the market, yet can't see that happening in the current model?
    A competitive model would be so fantastic.

    If I were in EAs shoes I would first get rid of those function restrictions like the action bars thing.

    Then I would add to the cash shop: Recount, Powerauras, DBM, Gladius, Pazzak mini game (for when your raid leader is explaining fights you already know! like wow and bejeweled), Duel spec, ect. Get the add ons and unnecessary game features in that cash shop ASAP.

    Replace the cap on the number of WZs and FPs you can run with a daily WZ commendation cap and number of rolls won in an instance. This weekly idea is stupid. If you make people log on daily it has a much higher chance of forming a habit.

    Make the "PVP pass" grant full WZ commendation gain, remove the cap, and grant access to ranked for 1 week per pass. Offer a PVP month pass for 750 coins, (as opposed to making people buy 4 passes for 1000. Let them buy in bulk. It makes them play more in order to get the most for their money.)

    The stipend promotes casual play. Get rid of it and replace it with a passive "Subscribers gain 500% more coins than preferred accounts and f2p accounts gain no coins." and then make it so weekly/dailies grant a few coins each. Again, make people log on every night, make them feel rewarded, and you will have them playing your game forever. This would result in an in game method for gaining coins which promotes a feeling of "fairness" while also offering subscribers a way to earn a large amount of coins. This has another effect, people will be trying to complete their dailies and weeklies more. Finding a group to do the world boss weekly without a raiding guild, and sometimes with a raiding guild, is fucking annoying. If you add an incentive to it, what people perceive as "free money" they will do it more often. This promotes healthier community and increases the chance that people will find guilds and make friends, which is what makes people play WoW still despite everything its done.

    Oh, and another thing. Leave one t1 raid open to preferred accounts. That way they can try raiding and find out if they like it. You won't see people subscribe to raid if they don't know if they like it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    And also, you can never ever have hamburger on your pizza. That's only for full price customers.
    That... Just made me so sad.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-13 at 03:34 PM.
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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    And if you want to see the game thrive and grow, providing an experience that's enjoyable for everyone and is competitive with other MMO's in the market, yet can't see that happening in the current model?
    Then, as I said, you will sit on the forums and complain about things.

    You just understand, I'm sure, that it does no good. Basically, you should either accept the game as it is and play it, or quit and go away and be quiet. Because sitting on forums only wastes your time and everyone else's... it CERTAINLY doesn't accomplish anything.

    Again, I'm not telling anyone that they should love or hate the game. That's up to you. Just for shit's sake - if you hate it, fine. Go away, because you are neither fixing anything nor ruining my experience (which I LOVE) by sitting here complaining.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This model started out at saying "we're going to give you free pizza", which meant they were going to give you uncooked dough with raw toppings. Oh you want that cooked?
    FYI, there are multiple credible and successful pizza chains who now use this business model.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Then, as I said, you will sit on the forums and complain about things.

    You just understand, I'm sure, that it does no good. Basically, you should either accept the game as it is and play it, or quit and go away and be quiet. Because sitting on forums only wastes your time and everyone else's... it CERTAINLY doesn't accomplish anything.

    Again, I'm not telling anyone that they should love or hate the game. That's up to you. Just for shit's sake - if you hate it, fine. Go away, because you are neither fixing anything nor ruining my experience (which I LOVE) by sitting here complaining.
    Who hates it? And who is trying to "ruin" your experience?

    Also, EA increased the WZ weekly cap because people expressed concern about their queue times. So it does make a difference.
    Also, how about you go away if you don't like reading what people have to say?
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-11-13 at 04:16 PM.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    FYI, there are multiple credible and successful pizza chains who now use this business model.
    Oh really? I was unaware that pizza places just hand out free materials and take no money in return. I'm not sure how that could ever be a successful business model. Unless of course you are only referring to selling uncooked pizzas, which is completely irrelevant as a specific factor to the point.

    There are several places that sell all sorts of uncooked foods, 'take and bake', if you will. Not to mention that we've had grocery stores forever. Like I said, not even relevant to the post at all.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Go away, because you are neither fixing anything nor ruining my experience (which I LOVE) by sitting here complaining.
    Also, MMO-Champion isn't designed for your pleasure. It also isn't a part of your SWTOR experience. So your attitude only serves an immature selfishness. Cut the crap out and have a real discussion if you are able.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-11-13 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Then, as I said, you will sit on the forums and complain about things.

    You just understand, I'm sure, that it does no good. Basically, you should either accept the game as it is and play it, or quit and go away and be quiet. Because sitting on forums only wastes your time and everyone else's... it CERTAINLY doesn't accomplish anything.

    Again, I'm not telling anyone that they should love or hate the game. That's up to you. Just for shit's sake - if you hate it, fine. Go away, because you are neither fixing anything nor ruining my experience (which I LOVE) by sitting here complaining.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 11:11 AM ----------



    FYI, there are multiple credible and successful pizza chains who now use this business model.
    Forums are the most used form of communication between players & devs.

    And neither should you tell people to either love it or shut up, nothing should be immune to criticism.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  14. #114
    Almost 80% of swtor players have done as leadsop has asked, they shut up and quit.

    I don't think that's a good thing. I would rather they stayed and keep complaining about the things they want/need in an mmo so they could be added and we could have a larger community.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    You just understand, I'm sure, that it does no good. Basically, you should either accept the game as it is and play it, or quit and go away and be quiet. Because sitting on forums only wastes your time and everyone else's... it CERTAINLY doesn't accomplish anything.
    I have a better idea if the discussions here bother you, just don't read or take part in them.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    *snip*
    Dang. Didn't mean to hit a nerve. I don't understand how your analogy applies to what I said. First off, I said "a lot". I did not say Kittyvicious and HK-51 feel this way. I honestly don't include most of the SWTOR posters here on mmo-champ, and I've agreed (off-screen) with a lot of what you have both said. I DO include most of the posters on massively.com, and several other sites. Most of them are insisting on everything for free, and they are seriously pissed off about not getting it.

    Second, what's wrong with actually paying for what you need? If you're not paying for the pizza, then the cost of the napkins, box, cooks, ovens, pepper and parm, utilities, ingredients, etc, etc, etc are not included in that initial investment for pizza. Is it looking like a ripoff? HELL YES!!! But, it's just like every other business that only wants to appease their shareholders and executives without a single thought about their customers except to see how much more profit they can exploit. A lot of these features will come down in price. You can be sure of that. We'll just need to wait them out.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrin View Post
    Second, what's wrong with actually paying for what you need? If you're not paying for the pizza, then the cost of the napkins, box, cooks, ovens, pepper and parm, utilities, ingredients, etc, etc, etc are not included in that initial investment for pizza. Is it looking like a ripoff? HELL YES!!! But, it's just like every other business that only wants to appease their shareholders and executives without a single thought about their customers except to see how much more profit they can exploit. A lot of these features will come down in price. You can be sure of that. We'll just need to wait them out.
    The problem is that my example highlights the differences between the actual design of the model. One place lets you completely enjoy the pizza at no cost and anything to enhance that experience is up to you. The other specifically prohibits your enjoyment of the pizza by removing vital elements and then making you pay for them. This is the exact difference between SWTOR and every other F2P game. In addition that you can earn some extras in other games.

    It's not a matter of the price, it's the entire foundation.

    And while you seem pretty level headed in this post, your last one was a base, dismissive post of people that aren't suckling at the EA teat right now like soft, warm kitties going purr purr purr. I can't speak to other websites like you mentioned, though I've read several threads on the official forums where there are plenty of people presenting the same arguments we do and met with harsh, selfish, game destroying attitudes which I have posted about already.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I have a better idea if the discussions here bother you, just don't read or take part in them.
    Nothing bothers me at all, other than the fact that people think bitching on a forum is going to change something.

  19. #119
    1-50 was great my first time, I tried to level alts but couldn't stand it. The one forced levelling route was just plain horrible. One planet for every 4 levels or so was a terrible choice. People like choice and in an MMO it's very important to have multiple levelling routes.

    The planets didn't feel very open as well. End game content was pretty bad as well, it didn't help that all the 4 mans were pointless to run more than once, since they offered nothing (you could raid easily in greens).

    The game had such great promise, but the above issues and pretty terrible engine ruined it.

    I'll return with F2P though and 'try' and get a second 50.

    Having no auto attack made the game feel less smooth as well, or something like that. I played a healer end game though, so it wasn't a huge issue.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2012-11-13 at 04:53 PM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Nothing bothers me at all, other than the fact that people think bitching on a forum is going to change something.
    I have a helpful tip. Covering your head with a sheet and saying the monsters aren't real whilst wielding a flashlight won't make the monsters go away.

    What adults should teach their children is that having a rational conversation with the monsters will actually make them less frightening and amiable to your desires. They might even befriend you, though you are different species and thus have ideas on life that are vastly different.

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