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  1. #1
    The Patient Principe's Avatar
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    Frost bomb vs cdew

    Anyone else think that was total bs?

    Frost bomb needs some major changes.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Lulbalance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Anyone else think that was total bs?

    Frost bomb needs some major changes.
    i'd have to see the vid again.. but i was pretty sure adouken got loose and finished him with a shadowburn.. at least i hope thats what i hope happened. either way that mage 80-0 him practically i guess.

    No one's complaining about that demo lock almost solo dropping zunnyaki in the first 10 secs of their game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  3. #3
    icyveins(optional)=>frozen orb ( ~60k)=>frost bomb (~80k)=>deep freeze
    =>fireblast(30k)=>>frostbolt (or lance) - ~45k=>lance (~45k) =>ffb (50k) =>blanket+pet freeze=>lance(45k)=>lance(45k)

    so a mage can do up to 400k damage in 10 seconds on a 1 min cd if the target hasn't got a trinket or gets dispelled. And all of this damage is instant (except frost bomb) so peelable only by blanket silences.


    Mages 2 stronk.
    Last edited by Strah; 2012-11-17 at 02:47 PM.

  4. #4
    frost bomb aprox 60k? got it 167k in freeze on 6k resil working as intend

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral zenga's Avatar
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    http://www.twitch.tv/wow_2/c/1737705

    Around 27 min into the Vod during the 2nd game (worth watching as you see how the korean shaman manages to survive a few times).

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Shibuya's Avatar
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    Cdew played unbelievably yesterday

  7. #7
    Dreadlord aeir's Avatar
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    cdew played real good, but that mage was left alone to do whatever he wanted in that part.
    in depth.

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    Even if a mage gets 2-3 casts off, you shouldn't be able to kill a healer in less than 5 seconds.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vryer View Post
    cdew played real good, but that mage was left alone to do whatever he wanted in that part.
    "Left alone to do whatever" for a total of 5 seconds...that wasn't even enough time to gib someone in s8.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Lufi's Avatar
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    Not cool, and the arena stats in chinese in the end not cool either... why not use the language that is usually used officially which is english?

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lufi View Post
    Not cool, and the arena stats in chinese in the end not cool either... why not use the language that is usually used officially which is english?
    The tournament is going on in China.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Lufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    The tournament is going on in China.
    As I said english is pretty much universal. I think that it has been in english in every blizzcon/battlenet. This is just a marketing strategy, could atleast give the rest of the subscribers (the ones they know that are already faithful) a full english stream that includes an arena spectator mode. Just like the Olympic games when they are held in Brazil I don't see everything including the scores be held in Portuguese, it is always both in the home language and english.
    Last edited by Lufi; 2012-11-17 at 07:34 PM.

  13. #13
    if blizz still says that they are happy where mages are im gonna be pissed after i watched that.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord aeir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    "Left alone to do whatever" for a total of 5 seconds...that wasn't even enough time to gib someone in s8.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q5pb-fEQhs

    Sure you played back then?
    in depth.

  15. #15
    The Patient Principe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryer View Post
    Beast cleave was on a total different level though lol.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Carrastealth's Avatar
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    Remove Glyph of Fire Blast if you want to take a step towards fixing mages and frost bomb.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Carrastealth View Post
    Remove Glyph of Fire Blast if you want to take a step towards fixing mages and frost bomb.
    No... Just no. Gonna Be real here. You remove that glyph mages are gone from ranked pvp, the one hugely damaging spell they have dispellable, and with a 6 second count down with deep on a 4 second duration its over for them.

    Mages are getting to much of the QQ lately.

    The context of this is so out of hand, this was the game that the other team last their mics. You know the thing that say "Im getting my *** ****ed by a mage, I need you guys to blanket/fear/etc also im 99% sure that the lock shadowburned and helped damage, as max damage frost bomb against Cdew might be 130k

    Every class has one massive ability or cooldowns that make em do massive damage, its just the state of the game.

    Mages need a fix, but not to that glyph but mastery and shatter imo

    Edit: Before I get flamed to high hell, for somewhat defending mages (I THINK THEY NEED NERFED BUT NOT HUGELY)

    There are other classes atm that can burst to high hell just as good or better than mages, we have Warriors, ferals, enhance, demo locks, destro locks if they free cast, DKs can put out immense damage but less bursty unless back to back obliterate crits for 100k each (allthough DKs are in a sad state in arena) all im saying is this is a bigger picture than mages are gods.
    Last edited by Dupree; 2012-11-17 at 11:47 PM.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Carrastealth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupree View Post
    No... Just no. Gonna Be real here. You remove that glyph mages are gone from ranked pvp, the one hugely damaging spell they have dispellable, and with a 6 second count down with deep on a 4 second duration its over for them.

    Mages are getting to much of the QQ lately.

    The context of this is so out of hand, this was the game that the other team last their mics. You know the thing that say "Im getting my *** ****ed by a mage, I need you guys to blanket/fear/etc also im 99% sure that the lock shadowburned and helped damage, as max damage frost bomb against Cdew might be 130k

    Every class has one massive ability or cooldowns that make em do massive damage, its just the state of the game.

    Mages need a fix, but not to that glyph but mastery and shatter imo

    Edit: Before I get flamed to high hell, for somewhat defending mages (I THINK THEY NEED NERFED BUT NOT HUGELY)

    There are other classes atm that can burst to high hell just as good or better than mages, we have Warriors, ferals, enhance, demo locks, destro locks if they free cast, DKs can put out immense damage but less bursty unless back to back obliterate crits for 100k each (allthough DKs are in a sad state in arena) all im saying is this is a bigger picture than mages are gods.

    No they aren't, it just causes them to have to think more about setting up their CC's and burst a little more. They' wouldn't be "done" form ranked PvP because they can't set up 3 CC's in a row and shatter off of all 3 of them like the back of their hand anymore. Glyph of Fire Blast is a lot to do with what's wrong with why people complain about frost bomb so much imo.

    Maybe removing the glyph entirely is too much, but it needs to be adjusted. Setting up all that burst through chained CC's back to back to back as a ranged class is a bit much of it's gonna do so much damage.

    I think mages are far from done if you took frost bomb off glyph of fire blast as their control and burst are still high. But as a mage the moment you use your trinket I can chain you in 3 seperate CC's bursting you down in each seperate chain while also PoM'ing my ring of frost to trap u again along with some more burst to look forward to as my instants still hit harder than my frost bolt which makes me want to use it less and less. Buff frost bolt, nerf a few other things. If mages are going to keep their amount of defense and control they gotta sacrifice some of their damage or they'll remain where people will always complain about them.
    Last edited by Carrastealth; 2012-11-17 at 11:56 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Carrastealth View Post
    No they aren't, it just causes them to have to think more about setting up their CC's and burst a little more. They' wouldn't be "done" form ranked PvP because they can't set up 3 CC's in a row and shatter off of all 3 of them like the back of their hand anymore. Glyph of Fire Blast is a lot to do with what's wrong with why people complain about frost bomb so much imo.

    Maybe removing the glyph entirely is too much, but it needs to be adjusted. Setting up all that burst through chained CC's back to back to back as a ranged class is a bit much of it's gonna do so much damage.

    I think mages are far from done if you took frost bomb off glyph of fire blast as their control and burst are still high. But as a mage the moment you use your trinket I can chain you in 3 seperate CC's bursting you down in each seperate chain while also PoM'ing my ring of frost to trap u again along with some more burst to look forward to as my instants still hit harder than my frost bolt which makes me want to use it less and less. Buff frost bolt, nerf a few other things. If mages are going to keep their amount of defense and control they gotta sacrifice some of their damage or they'll remain where people will always complain about them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carrastealth View Post
    No they aren't, it just causes them to have to think more about setting up their CC's and burst a little more. They' wouldn't be "done" form ranked PvP because they can't set up 3 CC's in a row and shatter off of all 3 of them like the back of their hand anymore. Glyph of Fire Blast is a lot to do with what's wrong with why people complain about frost bomb so much imo.

    Maybe removing the glyph entirely is too much, but it needs to be adjusted. Setting up all that burst through chained CC's back to back to back as a ranged class is a bit much of it's gonna do so much damage.

    I think mages are far from done if you took frost bomb off glyph of fire blast as their control and burst are still high. But as a mage the moment you use your trinket I can chain you in 3 seperate CC's bursting you down in each seperate chain while also PoM'ing my ring of frost to trap u again along with some more burst to look forward to as my instants still hit harder than my frost bolt which makes me want to use it less and less. Buff frost bolt, nerf a few other things. If mages are going to keep their amount of defense and control they gotta sacrifice some of their damage or they'll remain where people will always complain about them.
    I don't agree, you are proposing the wrong change, all classes, I repeat ALL CLASSES have some sort of a move that can take about 100k hp in this case frost bomb, Most of them can not be dispelled. if you want to remove the fire blast glyph you have to remove the ability to dispell it and just "prepare" for it. Because mages do not hit hard at ALL without frostbomb

    we are talking about 15-20k frostbolt hits, 50k Icelances on a frozen target 5k (not a joke literally 5k without.)

    Deep Freeze now.

    Assuming 5.1 deep freeze

    1Frostbomb/Deep Freeze ------> ~3 seconds left in deep Fireblast 100k +28k -----> 1.5seconds left 50k lance ------> maybe get another 50kish lance

    That is 228k damage, assuming No dispel, no defensive CDs no trinket, sounds like a lot right?
    Every other class can do this damage, even the poorly balanced rogues Mages have no cds that appreciably increase their burst. Icy Veins is haste while somewhat valuable is pretty much all GCD reduction.

    Outside its hardcasting frostbolt LOL 20k damage maybe (no dots) but you are probably being trained so you are likely just running and doing little damage until you can get a frostbomb into a deep.

    To get a Frostbomb to blow up in deep again, it would take 50% haste. 50%..... if it doesnt blow up inside the deep it loses 50% damage roughly (mastery stacking) and 70% crit (shatter)

    This is why im saying dont remove glyph fix mastery and shatter. Here lies the issue, fix that, compensate in other ways, bam mages fixed.

    But to propose a way that there is pretty much no way that the only spell they do considerable damage with be a 6 second countdown that needs to be frozen at the end, all you need do is dispell it, thats it then the mage has lost over half their burst.

    Meanwhile Ferals, Enhance, Warriors are all doing the same or more but under the radar, Mages will go because their top damage ability will decrease because they need to be frozen to do damage.

    Remove the mastery and replace it, fix shatter is 100000x better for all parties involved.

    The point is frost bomb is their burst paired with deep freeze take away that combo and dont fix it in other ways (what I want) mages will fall because to be hit by frostbomb in a deep you would have to be beyond stupid. (let the frostbomb sit before the mage starts hit deep about 3 seconds in.

    Edit: I understand you agree with the buff in other ways part, but the problem is that half of our damage comes from that combo, I agree, Its rediculous, However without controlling the detonation, it would either become 1 of 2 things.

    1. Blizz nerfs the glyph, compensates overall damage up burst cut in half but, if by some miracle you do pull it off, the deep + frost bomb combo it would be WORSE than before, because you outdid the nerf, and was compensated.

    2. Blizz nerfs, doesnt compensate, mages done. their burst cut in about 1/2

    This nerf has to be a polarizing one, mastery doesnt.
    or
    3. Blizzard nerfs mastery, Instead of 50% increased damage on frozen targets (100% possible stacking mastery and mage armor) It goes to another sustained damage stat, 50% less damage in a deep, by mastery, but fixed elsewhere. No possibility of pulling something off say scenario one where frost bomb waits the full 6 seconds and on a 4 second stun if not dispelled trinketed or defensive CD the mage pulls off rediculous damage.

    See what im proposing?
    Last edited by Dupree; 2012-11-18 at 12:34 AM.

  20. #20
    I think a majorly overlooked part of frost mages burst is frozen orb. That thing hits way to hard considering you really cant avoid it while deeped. My ~60% resil takes 15k per sec (or less than a sec with icy veins?) just from the orb alone. In a single deep im taking at 80k just from the "passive" orb damage. Ofc then we have the 100k+ frost bomb and everything else but frozen orb freakin hurts considering the benefit of FoF it gives.

    Edit: dueled my friends mage last night with 59.5% resil, his frozen orb ticked for 22k per sec, took half my health during a deep freeze by itself.
    Last edited by Hand Banana; 2012-11-18 at 07:45 PM.

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