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  1. #741
    The Patient Keyur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Paragon just got Last boss down on Heroic

    Edit: Picture: http://i.imgur.com/xoMB5.jpg

    Edit2: Time in Picture is Servertime + 1
    There is only 8 people in that list...?

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyur View Post
    There is only 8 people in that list...?
    Possible server transfers filling last two spots.

  3. #743
    The Patient Keyur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archidamos View Post
    No Guildox does that. Usually i am in favor of that aproach. On this tier though, with the first boss practically unkillable the 16 hours advandage that Blood Legion usually has is nullified by the fact that they were still at 0/6 for more than a day AFTER the european guilds joined the race.
    This particular tier the first access to content didnt offer much to an advandage to US guilds like it does in most tiers. It was a fair and square world first 25 kill.
    What actually Guildox and Wowprogress do it? How their ranking system work? Please explain in bit details. Which site consider patch launch difference for different region? From ranking I assume Wowprogress consider that but Guildox doesnt. Arrgh..its confusing.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by Ituhippi View Post
    http://www.wowprogress.com/

    Wowprogress disapproves your opinion on the matter.
    I said "this raid" and not "this tier" for a reason. This very particular raid Paragon are world 2nd overall, but they're still first if we're talking about the entire tier.

  5. #745
    While Paragon got the second kill, based on the time that the raid was available to each guild respectively, Paragon won by 10 hours. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, this is not an opinion, this is an unbiased, straight fact. Nothing more. This is most likely why they received full points on WoWProgress, because, in reality, they killed the boss faster. That does not mean they killed it first.

    All the senseless arguing when the reason is plain and simple is silly.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    While Paragon got the second kill, based on the time that the raid was available to each guild respectively, Paragon won by 10 hours. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, this is not an opinion, this is an unbiased, straight fact. Nothing more. This is most likely why they received full points on WoWProgress, because, in reality, they killed the boss faster. That does not mean they killed it first.

    All the senseless arguing when the reason is plain and simple is silly.
    They really didn't kill it any faster. Rather than going by when when the raid opened for each time zone, go by when the first boss was hotfixed. Before the hotfix, nobody could kill it. After the hotfix, all the top guilds killed it and were on an even slate time wise.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    They really didn't kill it any faster. Rather than going by when when the raid opened for each time zone, go by when the first boss was hotfixed. Before the hotfix, nobody could kill it. After the hotfix, all the top guilds killed it and were on an even slate time wise.
    This still really changes nothing. The us guilds still had an extra 24 hours to test the boss and refine strategies. They had more time, if they so wished, to take alts into later fights and learn them, things like that. WoWProgress isnt going to change their entire rating system based on a single fight when it doesn't change the reason WHY they rank the way they do.

  8. #748
    Congrats to Blood Legion, Paragon and Method for their kills:-) Regardless of all this arguing about 10/25 man, it's so cool to see how close all these guilds are in terms of kills and ability, and I'm really looking forward to seeing them all tackle Heart of Fear.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    This still really changes nothing. The us guilds still had an extra 24 hours to test the boss and refine strategies. They had more time, if they so wished, to take alts into later fights and learn them, things like that. WoWProgress isnt going to change their entire rating system based on a single fight when it doesn't change the reason WHY they rank the way they do.
    Nobody was testing strategies on further bosses, as nobody knew that the boss was going to get nerfed, and the top guilds were starting to get low percentage wipes.

    By the way, wowprogress rates everything in order of kills rather than time between the raid opening (depending on your timezone) and the boss getting killed.

  10. #750
    I see why both blood legion and paragon got full amount of points from shek'zeer because they are both world firsts in their respective bracets. What I do NOT understand is why Method got the max amount of points from her... that makes absolutely no sense.

  11. #751

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I see why both blood legion and paragon got full amount of points from shek'zeer because they are both world firsts in their respective bracets. What I do NOT understand is why Method got the max amount of points from her... that makes absolutely no sense.
    Kills were within 24 hours of each other. Has nothing to do with brackets that's why they all receive the same amount of points.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    While Paragon got the second kill, based on the time that the raid was available to each guild respectively, Paragon won by 10 hours. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, this is not an opinion, this is an unbiased, straight fact. Nothing more. This is most likely why they received full points on WoWProgress, because, in reality, they killed the boss faster. That does not mean they killed it first.

    All the senseless arguing when the reason is plain and simple is silly.

    also add to that the fact that Amber- Shaper was terribly "bugged" for like 15 hours before it was hotfixed on 10man. Paragon may not have gotten the world first kill on Wowprogress, but all things considered, they have been the most effective guild out there, and given that everything was fixed beforehand , they would have got the WF on Empress as well. Hope nothing like this happens in ToES. Would be a shame.

    Would also like to say one more thing. The fact that 3 guilds killed it within 24 hours of each other makes the World First feel less of an achievement. I mean, world firsts on gear checks such as Ascendant Council and tough fights like Ragnaros were what really separated the best from the rest. Paragon killed both of these bosses with 1 reset's worth less gear than Method for example. A true insignia to show that you really are better. So far this tier has been a disappointment so far. In that regard.
    Last edited by Potentio; 2012-11-11 at 10:40 PM.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Of course EU will never be happy that A US guild finally got World First & just cause Blood Legion is Ranked 3rd they think there no longer World First, but they also don't understand how Wowprogress works many people in this thread have explained it. Even if Blood Legion is 3rd they still have World First Grand Empress.

    Some people just don't understand the race at all, Blood Legion killed it first for 25man & thats it, Paragon got the World First kill on 10man (World Second Overall), Method got the World 2nd 25man kill (World 3rd Overall) for that raid. But there is also 1 more raid Terrace of Endless of Springs and there well will see the final bracket People always complain saying we should include 10 & 25man. There is no who killed it faster than the other, On Tuesday Us couldn't kill Vizier as it was bugged and going Left you would have to wipe everytime. Wednesday comes & Method was 4/6 ahead of everyone including Blood Legion than they came up from behind and killed both Amber Shaper & Grand Empress before anyway.

    Blood Legion killed Grand Empress 18 hours before Method & 14 hours before Paragon did on 10man, So saying Method or Paragon cleared the raid faster is a useless arguement & excuse cause this time cause of a bug everyone was on even footing and started progression on Wednesday.

    So the Standing for HM Heart of Fear:
    Blood Legion got the World 1st HM Heart of Fear Clear Overall w/ Amber-Shaper & Grand Empress World 1st 25man Kills,
    Paragon got World 2nd HM Heart of Fear Clear Overall, 1st 10 man to clear all HM HoF bosses.
    Than Method got World 3rd HM Heart of Fear Clear Overall w/ World Second Grand Empress & Amber-Shaper 25man & World First 25 man Vizier, Blade Lord, Garalon & Wind Lord.
    Although you are totally right on your rankings just wanted to make something clear for you why US still had a little bit of edge or advantage. The reason method had to stop at 4/6 was that the bug was fixed at around 1am EU time and they only could advance four bosses before it became 4am there!! while US had whole evening and they made it to 5/6 by like 11pm US time that day. So again they had this advantage which finally sort of affected the competition. But again Blood Legion no matter what did world first 25 man on heart of fear.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    Although you are totally right on your rankings just wanted to make something clear for you why US still had a little bit of edge or advantage. The reason method had to stop at 4/6 was that the bug was fixed at around 1am EU time and they only could advance four bosses before it became 4am there!! while US had whole evening and they made it to 5/6 by like 11pm US time that day. So again they had this advantage which finally sort of affected the competition. But again Blood Legion no matter what did world first 25 man on heart of fear.
    That hotfix you are referring to did not affect 25man at all.

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    This still really changes nothing. The us guilds still had an extra 24 hours to test the boss and refine strategies. They had more time, if they so wished, to take alts into later fights and learn them, things like that. WoWProgress isnt going to change their entire rating system based on a single fight when it doesn't change the reason WHY they rank the way they do.
    Technically Blood Legion had a head start on the first boss by being in the US, yes...

    But in terms of skill displayed, Blood Legion proved to be the best raiding guild in HOF this time around.

    They actually came from behind, having downed Vizier third behind both the other top competitors, to end up ultimately passing both Paragon and Method by performing better on the remaining bosses, especially Un'Sok and Empress.

    That's why the whole "head start" argument is not really holding water, it was obvious that Blood Legion performed better from the first boss onwards.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2012-11-11 at 11:57 PM.
    Fangthorn <Temerity> Windrunner - US

    US #15 @ 3 Days - 12 Hours / Week

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprucelee View Post
    passing both Paragon and Method by performing better on the remaining bosses, especially Un'Sok and Empress..
    Though one could argue if Amber Shaper hadn't been so ridiculous on 10man before hotfixes, Paragon would have been the first by far to kill Empress. That being said, the world first race this tier has been utterly ruined by the lack of proper raid testing on Blizzard's part. There hasn't been a good world first race since Firelands, let's just hope Blizz step up their internal raid testers for t15.

    In any case, gratz to BL for finally killing an end boss world first.

    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  18. #758
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    That is all there is to say. BL got it world first, there is no argument that will hold against it. Deal with it.

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Haizer View Post


    That is all there is to say. BL got it world first, there is no argument that will hold against it. Deal with it.

    there are many arguments against it it if you like to get behind the surface of things and actually find out what caused them to get it before Paragon for example. Appearance is just that - appearance.

  20. #760
    Heh, such a small group of people care these days. And there are so few hardcore guilds left.

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