1. #1
    Mechagnome manicwrath's Avatar
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    reforging - broken/ failed addition?

    Does anyone else feel that reforging is broken and unnecessary? It feels like a gold sink, broken and badly implemented.

    When you reforge an item, you need to reach certain caps be it, hit, expertise, mastery etc. But what about players who don't use online sources to configure their reforging and don't use out of game sources for research? Blind luck or speculation? Trial and error?

    Why reforge in the first place when gear should already have its stats for which ever spec/priority like back in vanilla/TBC/WotLK

    It feels like we have to reforge our gear to put stats back in which were taken out when gear was meant to be "simplified". To me it just seems counter productive. I know this sounds like a major QQ but to me reforging is akin to a back pocket on a shirt.

  2. #2
    For those players who don't want to use online sources or do any research, they can simply hover over the expertise/hit stats on their character sheet and it will tell them how much more they need (or rather, the percentage chance to miss/be dodged/parried). They can then use trial and error to figure it out from there. As for the other secondary stats, they will probably just reforge into what they like the most, or what gives them the most noticeable DPS increase. Or not bother with that. Reforging for stats other than hit/exp caps is a minimal DPS gain/loss anyways, really only for minmaxers.

    And uh... go back to vanilla/tbc/wotlk, where enhancement shamans struggled to get expertise, tanking druids couldn't get tanking stats, and you had to carry around multiple items just to keep yourself at the hit cap if you got an upgrade? I know the stats have changed in MoP and these are no longer an issue, but they're examples that I can think of to illustrate the problem; without reforging, some specs will be forced to use a lot of sub-optimal gear with no way of making it even slightly more desireable. It doesn't feel good to feel like a second class player because you don't have gear itemised for you.

    Besides, I find it fun to be sat at the reforging NPC, trying out different builds to get the most out of my gear. I definitely do not agree with the 'broken and badly implemented' concept; I do however agree with it being a gold sink. And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

  3. #3
    It's a b*tch to min/max with reforging. There are sites/programs that can do it for you but they don't always do what you want.
    It just feels annoying to me that I have to figure out what's the best way to get hit capped/haste capped whenever I get a new item. But I can understand some people like doing it and it's nice to be able to adjust your stats. Like Kisho said it's in some aspects better than how it used to be.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It just feels annoying to me that I have to figure out what's the best way to get hit capped/haste capped whenever I get a new item.

    It's way better than before reforging where you actually had to calculate which items will be good for you and not put you over caps, how to reach the hit cap etc etc.. Reforging is awesome tool.
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  5. #5
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Best addition ever.

    For anyone that doesn't know their class there is no point to reforge gear, they won't notice the difference anyway.

    Gear is meant to be useful for more than one class (shadow priests/mages/warlocks-dks/warriors/paladins-druids/monks/rogues-etc) that's why reforging is needed (I could need mastery but the other dk could need haste and the warrior could need crit so we can all reforge the weaker secondary stat into a useful one).

  6. #6
    The advent of mastery pretty much demanded reforging be added. Even if you argue semantics over "haste vs crit", having either or neither and mastery on a class that doesn't favor mastery can make for the classic situation of "it's an upgrade in most ways, but I'm not going to wear it because it doesn't have my stat."
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    Why reforge in the first place when gear should already have its stats for which ever spec/priority like back in vanilla/TBC/WotLK.
    ye those glorious days when i had to wear leather and mail items on my warrior cause they had better stat alocation... no thanks , reforging is awesome and amazing quality of life change

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
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    Well its not necessary and not used by most of us casual scrubs along with enchanting, gems and the use of flasks potions food etc..
    Even wearing the wrong gear is ok, like cloth instead of plate.
    You will find us in your random dungeon group having a ball needing on everything..
    Coming bottom at DPS, its something we strive for.

    Of course most of the above is mandatory in most raid Guilds, but where is the fun in that ,its like a second job.
    We will just dive into Raid Finder and pick up some leet gear for free.

  9. #9
    Warchief Velthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    But what about players who don't use online sources to configure their reforging and don't use out of game sources for research
    And why they dont use it? Seems stupid. You dont want to be a good raider, etc, if u dont use helps, forums, addons etc. U dont need caps then.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    Why reforge in the first place when gear should already have its stats for which ever spec/priority like back in vanilla/TBC/WotLK
    you mean that time when there was str on rogue leather ?
    that time when there was spi on non-intel plate ?
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  11. #11
    Mechagnome manicwrath's Avatar
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    I will get flak for this but normally a game should be self contained, with everything you need to know available in game. Not just hover over - here are your caps - do it.

    As with the gear implementation / reforging, I dunno I just don't agree with reforging. Like I said it feels like I have waste time on putting something back in which shouldnt of been taken out

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    It's way better than before reforging where you actually had to calculate which items will be good for you and not put you over caps, how to reach the hit cap etc etc.. Reforging is awesome tool.
    I said exactly the same, it's better than in the past. I just feel it's still annoying but I can deal with it. Not everyone enjoys the same things.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    Does anyone else feel that reforging is broken and unnecessary? It feels like a gold sink, broken and badly implemented.

    When you reforge an item, you need to reach certain caps be it, hit, expertise, mastery etc. But what about players who don't use online sources to configure their reforging and don't use out of game sources for research? Blind luck or speculation? Trial and error?

    Why reforge in the first place when gear should already have its stats for which ever spec/priority like back in vanilla/TBC/WotLK

    It feels like we have to reforge our gear to put stats back in which were taken out when gear was meant to be "simplified". To me it just seems counter productive. I know this sounds like a major QQ but to me reforging is akin to a back pocket on a shirt.
    Are you high? When did gear ever have the stats you wanted for your spec, especially in Vanilla/TBC?

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  14. #14
    The sad thing is, is a large portion of the player base doesn't even know reforging exists, the importance of the hit and expertise caps, and it absolutely 100% is not the player's fault. It's Blizzard's fault. Plain and simple.

    Reforging should of been something entirely different. It should of been more like gemming in that items would have "slots", that they had to pay to change/add things to/whatever, with a tooltip on the item telling you to visit a reforger. Or something. Anything. Because it's depressing, OUTRIGHT depressing that a gigantic amount of people don't know reforging exists, and Blizzard refuses to do anything about anything like this.

  15. #15
    Reforging is extremely overrated. Sure, reaching the caps is important but appart from that, many people stress over reforging haste to mastery etc, and in most classes the difference is minimal unless you are trying to reach a cap, 1% dps after reforging the whole gear or even lower. Make the math taking the relative stats values from mr robot. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT CAPS; REFORGING FOR THOSE IS NOTICEABLE, talking about the 2 ratings that are the worst 2 for you or classes that have very close relative stat values. Plus, when they are close in value, if you reforge everything to one, it can end up losing a bit of value and being inferior, and mr robot doesnt take that into account. Rawr does.

  16. #16
    I like reforging generally, but I don't like having to reforge 5+ existing pieces for hit/expertise caps just because I got one upgrade. It would be less annoying if we could choose to reforge less than the maximum amount of stats. For example instead of reforging 140 haste into hit on a piece, you could choose to only reforge 128 or 107 haste into hit.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by paraalso View Post
    I like reforging generally, but I don't like having to reforge 5+ existing pieces for hit/expertise caps just because I got one upgrade. It would be less annoying if we could choose to reforge less than the maximum amount of stats. For example instead of reforging 140 haste into hit on a piece, you could choose to only reforge 128 or 107 haste into hit.
    Thats because people blindly follow Mr robot, you can just leave like that if the piece didnt affect your caps or just reforge your worst stat to hit until close to the cap or a bit above it and your dps wont change in a noticeable amount. We are talking about reforging 150 of a stat that you have several thousands of to another one wich has a relative value of 1.5 vs 1.7 and things like that. The difference is like gaining 15 rating or less.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    The sad thing is, is a large portion of the player base doesn't even know reforging exists, the importance of the hit and expertise caps, and it absolutely 100% is not the player's fault. It's Blizzard's fault. Plain and simple.

    Reforging should of been something entirely different. It should of been more like gemming in that items would have "slots", that they had to pay to change/add things to/whatever, with a tooltip on the item telling you to visit a reforger. Or something. Anything. Because it's depressing, OUTRIGHT depressing that a gigantic amount of people don't know reforging exists, and Blizzard refuses to do anything about anything like this.
    This is like people who said that people couldn't know that the shield around a enemy castbar means that you can't interrupt the cast while tips in the loading screen tell you exactly what it does.

    I don't think everything needs to be in the middle of your screen in big red letters because some people are not bothered to read a tooltip or tips in the loading screen. When you read "You have 0.96% to miss a level 93 mob" when you hold your crosshair on your hit rating it is very obvious that you have to increase your hit rating to not miss.
    Some people simply don't care, so be it. I don't think that's the games fault. When you do care it is simple to figure it out by yourself with all the information given to you in the game.
    Last edited by Gilian; 2012-11-07 at 10:33 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by manicwrath View Post
    Why reforge in the first place when gear should already have its stats for which ever spec/priority like back in vanilla/TBC/WotLK
    Personally, I loved my STR and AGI on resto gear in vanilla :P

    Also, I like being able to customize my gear slightly, though I wish I could reforge it all!!! aaaaand I would like to mention that all caps of interest are listed right there in the character screen; I never use internet resources for my reforge (I know I know, I am sure it is not optimal...).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    This is like people who said that people couldn't know that the shield around a enemy castbar means that you can't interrupt the cast while tips in the loading screen tell you exactly what it does.

    I don't think everything needs to be in the middle of your screen in big red letters because some people are not bothered to read a tooltip or tips in the loading screen. When you read "You have 0.96% to miss a level 93 mob" when you hold your crosshair on your hit rating it is very obvious that you have to increase your hit rating to not miss.
    Some people simply don't care, so be it. I don't think that's the games fault. When you do care it is simple to figure it out by yourself with all the information given to you in the game.
    A screen tooltip is hardly the most helpful way to tell the most casual player a single damned thing :x I can't seer how a person would think that's at all intuitive.

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