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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    No we know what's driving him. His idea of peace and resources for Horde is one where there is only the Horde that can have them in the first place which is why his aim is to conquer Azeroth. It is pretty much the same reason the Orcs the Orcs came to Azeroth in the first place.
    Wasnt it because otherwise they would kill each other? They needed something to fight other than themselves.

  2. #102
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Wasnt it because otherwise they would kill each other? They needed something to fight other than themselves.
    That was one of the bonuses but not the purpose.
    The purpose was that it was Gul'dan could destroy Azeroth and gain more power for himself by doing so, and for the rest of the Orcs it was a new planet to live on as their planet had been killed.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-11-08 at 05:22 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Night elves attacked to drive invaders out of their lands. Dick move, yes.
    Orcs responded by returning to fel corruption by drinking demon blood and killing Cenarius. Much bigger dick move.

    However, night elves did not make negotiations impossible. It's again in a novel, but the night elves established not only negotiated terms, but allowed the orcs limited harvesting of lumber and hunting rights within Ashenvale until the events prior to the Cataclysm. The Twilight Cultists' slaughter of the Sentinels in the forest under guise of being Horde led to the halt of all trade routes through Ashenvale as well as stopped the Horde's access to the forest entirely. Garrosh's first response was "screw them, we will take whatever we want" which was met with disdain from Cairne, Eitrigg, etc.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the Warsong acted stupidly, immaturely, badly and overall... Well; as you put it, a 'dickmove.'
    I'm not actually defending them. I'm just saying that the image of the Horde being the only one to blame is woefully one-sided and unfair.

    I have always been bummed out about the fact, though, that Thrall didn't stop the Warsong clan from continuing their stupidity. If it wasn't for the Warsong's stupidity, the Night Elves might never have joined the Alliance, and the Horde might have actually established a friendship with them, which would have helped tremendously in securing Durotar against the human invaders (due to better provisions).

  4. #104
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    ....Uther had a beard.
    Uther is dead, too.

    Kevyne is very much alive -- despite I'm not in game anymore -- ever carrying the Light with all the purity and cleanliness of a noble and holy warrior. WITH NO BEARD!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I think Varian might indeed look pretty good with the right beard. You'd still see the scar across his nose and eye. Not a fan of the long one seen in the edited image above in this thread, though. That's more "magely" style than I'd expect on Varian.
    Can't see the scar well with a beard or even a 5 o'clock shadow. It's meant to be seen 10 feet away, even. That's Varian's past, present and future and motivation to continue on. That's who he became, and what defines who he is...a beard does nothing for that. Need at least one warrior in the game that doesn't look trashy.

    Some humor as well...
    http://lovablewarlock.blogspot.com/2...are-gross.html

    I think I figured it out though: the reason these guys are all walking around with atrocious beards is because there are no epic-level razors that drop off the bosses of enormous raid instances. I'm sure if a bottle of shaving cream were to pop up as a rare drop in Molten Core, they'd be killing themselves over it.
    Last edited by Kevyne-Shandris; 2012-11-08 at 05:36 PM.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Briga View Post
    Because when an evil dragon wrecked a part of his beloved city the first thing he did was order them build a new statue!
    I believe it was donated to him by the dwarves of Ironforge after he helped them with something, he didn't have it built.

  6. #106
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    I believe it was donated to him by the dwarves of Ironforge after he helped them with something, he didn't have it built.
    Do you have a source?

  7. #107
    Because he's Mr. Goody twoshoes perfect now. A lame boring and uncreative Ying to Garrosh's Yang story. Would like to see The Alliance get their hands dirty and do some questionable shit but he can't do wrong at the moment. It's what made people go off Thrall a bit. Some even claimed that there were different characters, Thrall being the badass we knew and Go'el the mary sue snorefest in Cata.

  8. #108
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    Because he's Mr. Goody twoshoes perfect now. A lame boring and uncreative Ying to Garrosh's Yang story. Would like to see The Alliance get their hands dirty and do some questionable shit but he can't do wrong at the moment. It's what made people go off Thrall a bit. Some even claimed that there were different characters, Thrall being the badass we knew and Go'el the mary sue snorefest in Cata.
    They're all the same, but from different factions.

    Varian was imprisoned and forced to be a gladiator. Thrall was imprisoned as well.

    They're of a similar background, but one is seeking retribution, the other trying to resolve it as some sage.

    And each can't escape their past (and one day Thrall will have to come to grips with himself, the wanderings in the wilderness won't make him escape from it).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by SylvanaSlave View Post
    Atrocities are relative. One of your humans was corrupted and wiped out half the known world with the Scourge.
    Did he do it in the name of the Alliance? Did he attack Horde lands exclusively, sparing the Alliance?

    Answer those questions, then compare the answers to situations such as the bomb in Stonetalon, the bomb in Theramore, the plague bombs in Southshore, the plague bombs in Gilneas... and so on.

  10. #110
    A lot of the dislike has died down recently, especially since he became less war hungry and more "I accept we must fight the Horde, but I'm not going to genocide them all".

    The main reason was that a lot of people comparing him to Garrosh and claiming he made war for the sake of it, when after what he's seen and been through it made a lot of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Sandbox MMOs are like having sex with a pornstar: Everyone wants it, but when you're getting it, it's suddenly not so awesome anymore.

  11. #111
    His character does seem to take a 180 in 5.1 it will be nice to hear all the datamined voices in contex.

  12. #112
    I like Varian, honestly. He seems to at least have some reasoning behind his actions, most of the time (which is something his horde counterpart lacks).

    What I dont like about him is his design. His model has the world's largest jaw, giving him what looks like a particularily nasty underbite. His anime ponytail, and the crazed look in his eyes don't exactly help. His armor is cool enough, though. I just wish our King actually looked like a respectable guy.

  13. #113
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Blizzard set him up as having major flaws and his story arc as king is really more or less at the beginning. The arc apparently will be about growth. It will be interesting to see how far they take it.

    Due to the extremely slow-motion story telling in the game setting him up as a king with flaws and blind spots, it's reasonable to think that this, more than anything, is responsible for a good portion of it.
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  14. #114
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Blizzard set him up as having major flaws and his story arc as king is really more or less at the beginning. The arc apparently will be about growth. It will be interesting to see how far they take it.

    Due to the extremely slow-motion story telling in the game setting him up as a king with flaws and blind spots, it's reasonable to think that this, more than anything, is responsible for a good portion of it.
    Setting him up with so many flaws will just anger Alliance players more about him. Something about humanity they will see lacking in him if Blizzard goes too far with his vengeance. He is human and king of the human kingdom, if he doesn't relate to us, he will be alienated from us.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMosquito View Post
    Answer those questions, then compare the answers to situations such as the bomb in Stonetalon, the bomb in Theramore, the plague bombs in Southshore, the plague bombs in Gilneas... and so on.
    So using bombs in war is an uber evil thing to do?

    And is there really a difference from dying from a plauge bomb or a high explosive bomb, they both hurt and kill

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 10:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by junkshop23 View Post
    (which is something his horde counterpart lacks).
    .
    You dont need to be personally attacked by an enemy people to want to hate them.
    You dont need to have your family killed or home destroyed to want to hate a people.

    9/11 happened on the other side of the country for me, it made zero difference to me, yet I still wish a slow, painful death to every terrorist out there

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 10:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Setting him up with so many flaws will just anger Alliance players more about him..
    Yet having flaws and not being picture perfect is a very human thing, its a very mortal thing
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    So using bombs in war is an uber evil thing to do?

    And is there really a difference from dying from a plauge bomb or a high explosive bomb, they both hurt and kill
    I was not talking about which is worse, more evil, or anything like that. I was pointing out that using Arthas as a symbol that "the Alliance can be evil too" is nonsensical, since his atrocities had nothing to do with the Alliance, while the Horde ones were 100% Horde-motivated.

  17. #117
    There's something about his voice that sounds really fucking annoying.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMosquito View Post
    I was not talking about which is worse, more evil, or anything like that. I was pointing out that using Arthas as a symbol that "the Alliance can be evil too" is nonsensical, since his atrocities had nothing to do with the Alliance, while the Horde ones were 100% Horde-motivated.
    well when he was a Death Knight no.

    But he did do some shady stuff in his attempt to secure victory against Malganis
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    But he did do some shady stuff in his attempt to secure victory against Malganis
    I ran the Culling of Stratholme lately and I agree with you, he was quite scandalous even before becoming a Death Knight.
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  20. #120
    Because he is a human Garrosh, but a bit more subtle

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