Why is pvp balanced around 3s?

[WarTV]

that used to be the case.
but since cata pvp is now balanced around Mages.

[ati87]

BG is a terrible place to balance pvp around.

Their is no way you can balance classes around something as random as BG, even the fight themselves are determined more by figthing location and number.

2vs2 is impossible to balance around because you will always have classes that counter each other, this is more evident in 2vs2 then any other bracket.
5vs5 isn't as popular but that isn't the issue, major weaknesses are usually compensated by other classes.

3vs3 is the perfect number because part of the weaknesses (lack of control or burst for example) is fixed compensated by the 2 partners, but not to such a extreme where Blizzard can just ignore the overall balance between classes.

Also the first season of every expansion means classes that are OP. Beta is good enough for preventing mostly totally broken things but not enough to fine tune certain classes.

For example did player A got killed because of burst or because he just sucked, because 1000 people testing a small part of the game just isn't enough.

[Violent]

Did an arena last night with 5 warriors, it was pretty funny

Yeah, well good for the warriors, not every one plays or even likes them. We shouldn't all be forced to play one just to have this "fun"

This is what I meant by fascist.

[lukerocks]

Yeah, well good for the warriors, not every one plays or even likes them. We shouldn't all be forced to play one just to have this "fun"

This is what I meant by fascist.

You expect too much from this game. WoW will never be balanced and it will always have FoTM classes. Now if you're calling that fascism you're just being superfluous. Remember, you're not forced to do anything in this game.

[Deleted]

TBC one vs one balance was horrible, wotlk cata and mop are all better in that regard.
Now is it more fun? that is up for debate.

In fact I don't see why people put TBC on such a pedestal, ofc I enjoyed and loved arena back thene, it was new and fun, but balanced? Goodness no.

Tbc was slower paced, with less burst (Wrath brought in high burst), less CC and, mistakes were punished much less too. You were however much more rewarded putting up perfect CC chains and pressuring the other team, whereas now you can easily put a healer in a 15 second CC (if you want to do so by blowing instant CD based CCs), and you will either you get a kill, or the other team survives and you have to wait until your CDs and CC gets ready again before you can get in a kill.
There were also 2 less classes represented, and far less viable specs. So actually those players that played these specs (arms war, SL lock, frost mage, resto shaman, disc priest, spriest, HARP/shadowstep/mut rogue, resto druid, MM hunters, holy pala and some other less represented specs) they had tons of fun, because everything was actually fairly balanced and no class was better than another in 3v3, but every class had their own niche when putting together a comp.

So it wasn't like "blow CDs and instant CC to get a win". Since every team didn't have 37 different CDs at their disposal you had to use CDs wisely. You either won because of strong and coordinated CC, good pressure on opposing team (because healer mana mattered, and you had to use like 5 or 6 GCDs to top someone), or being able to outlast the enemy because of mana play (drinks and viper sting/mana burn/mana drain).


Ever since Tbc Blizzard have kept on bringing dumped down abilities into the game, far more random CC, more burst, as well as made more classes/specs viable for PvP. No wonder some people will prefer the slow pace of Tbc.

[Bryntrollian]

I don't.. It's pretty fascist.. With that logic it should just be World of Warriors.. Where's the fun in that? Like a call of duty with spells. Boring.

It is world of warriors, look at the ladders for 3v3 arena....

[slime]

The illusion is that there is any balance even in 3s. hunters / warriors / warlocks say hi from pandaland.

[ebah]

that used to be the case.
but since cata pvp is now balanced around Mages.

You mean since vanilla?

[Lassira]

I actually know this one, and anyone who cares about PvP and has been playing since TBC does too.

Arena tournament were first 5v5 tournaments, but they were really boring to watch as a spectator sport due to all the people, and it was really hectic.
Arena tournaments were then 2v2 tournaments, but the entire tournament was warrior/druid and warlock/druid(with a single sp/rogue that almost won), each game took 10-30 minutes and it was really boring.
Then they did 3v3 tournaments and it just clicked, they were entertaining to watch and ended in a 1-4 minute time period usually.

This is why 3v3 is the balance point.

[Yoshimiko]

TBC one vs one balance was horrible, wotlk cata and mop are all better in that regard.
Now is it more fun? that is up for debate.

In fact I don't see why people put TBC on such a pedestal, ofc I enjoyed and loved arena back thene, it was new and fun, but balanced? Goodness no.

I'm sorry, but did you just say MoP balance in 1v1 was better than tbc? Seriously if you just take out Mage vs Warlock for a second, I can't think of a single inbalanced 1v1 specifically at the start-middle of Season 3. I saw gambling going on in ALL 1v1s pretty much regardless of which class. And money was passed around quite a bit, as well. Whereas half of the classes in MoP are just outright better in every possible way to the other half.

Why play a DK when you can have a warrior? Why play a rogue when you can have a warrior? Why play a Elemental shaman when you can have a Spriest? Why play a lock when you can have a mage? Why play a Monk when you can have a rogue, dk, or warrior? Why heal on anything other than a druid?

When balance was based around 2v2 was pretty much, in my opinion, the pinnacle of pvp balance. 2s were balanced, every class had a spot in 3s, Almost every spec in the game had a spot - be it Beast Cleave, LumberJacks, RMP, or LSD - you have Triple tank, Triple dps, African Turtle Cleave, Double Dps Tank, Double healer Dps. You had MPS, Shadow cleave, Shadowplay, Shatterplay.. We had Fire/Fury/Hpal, Kanye Cleave, etc etc..The list just goes on and on and on. Every one of these comps were Glad capable, and I'm pretty sure each has reached R1 on some server, somewhere.

[Mormolyce]

It should be balanced around 1v1 and 2v2 like in TBC, one can only dream....

Haha, man I'd love to play the magical version of TBC that exists in QQers' minds.

There were also 2 less classes represented, and far less viable specs. So actually those players that played these specs (arms war, SL lock, frost mage, resto shaman, disc priest, spriest, HARP/shadowstep/mut rogue, resto druid, MM hunters, holy pala and some other less represented specs) they had tons of fun, because everything was actually fairly balanced and no class was better than another in 3v3, but every class had their own niche when putting together a comp.

Heaps of non-viable specs = good balance. Righty-o.

[Terahertz]

It bugs me that even though blizzard balances pvp around 3v3, it's still not balanced.

[Palatinus]

It bugs me that even though blizzard balances pvp around 3v3, it's still not balanced.

Because they don't. They just say they do because its an easier way for them to do less balancing. Got a problem with warriors? Well your 3s team should of been triple mage so the warrior couldn't touch you, not something we need fix....- Just gives them more ways to cover themselves from really balancing.

Wasn't cata suppose to be balanced around rated battlegrounds at some point? RBGs balance is worse than arena atm lol.

Regardless of whether TBC was as good as some people make it out to be, I think its pretty hard to disagree that;

Season 1 - Season 7 was far more balanced than season 8 - 12.

What changed? Balancing around '3s', PvE ilvl increase from heroic modes (gone now due to pvp power) and the amount of instant CC and other silly abilities classes gained through wotlk-MoP.

[akon]

Sure arena is fun, when the spec you WANT to be viable becomes viable. It didnt in CATA, idk about MOP.

And yeah 2v2>3v3 imo, sadly 2v2 is unbalanced too, cause of healers i guess.

BGs is a different story. All of your specs can be somewhat usefull which makes you feel that arena is just a huge pile of crap. Its more balanced than arena just because of that.

RBG/BG have 1 great advandage that no arena can offer: they can allow more flexible combos since a lot more ppl participate and i m not talking about now im talking since the very 1s time blizz added RBG.

[Deleted]

Just added a poll, to get an idea of the general thought of things

[Freia]

I meant, your average run of the mill BG, not RBG's

---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 05:38 PM ----------



I love this quote

They would have to put in a lot of work to balance random bgs. They would basically have to rework the whole queue system for it. Not saying they shouldn't but that is where the imbalance is in that regard.

[Gabbynator]

lol why people voting 3s we only seeing warrior or mage in any team

[Redlikemyrage]

lol why people voting 3s we only seeing warrior or mage in any team

Top 50 teams in my battelgroup for 3v3, only 24 warriors. Just as many resto shamans, and only 19 mages. Try again.

[Deleted]

It's easier to balance this game around certain things, in this case 3v3 bracket. Blizzard said it by themselves that 2s was way too hard to balance and thus removed rewards from 2s. Not to mention arenas have been around ever since TBC release.

3v3 is competitive PvP bracket, Battlegrounds are not. Battlegrounds are something you do for 'fun', BGs haven't had any deeper meaning outside of gearing up and hunting achievements ever since PvP titles were removed. That's one reason why to balance it around 3v3. Unfortunately I don't have any proof, but I'm fairly sure 3v3 representation is far larger than RBG. Most of the time RBGs are only played to achieve higher conq cap, remove that and RBG representation would drop dramatically. Aka people are _FORCED_ to play RBG. Also it's easier to form a 3v3 team and get going.

[Stormspellz]

nothing in pvp is balanced or even close to the word.