View Poll Results: Will World of Warcraft subscribers go under 10 million this quarter or stay above?

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  • It will stay above 10 million.

    245 62.03%
  • It will go under 10 million.

    150 37.97%
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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Whoa!

    Now that's a first I've seen of that!

    But, yeah, GMs can't change what Blizzard does and that's not the venue for it, though. It's the forums, IF, you're not banned...yet.
    I like to imagine everyone on mmo-champion forums is banned from the official forums..if you criticize blizzard or dont kiss ass...bye bye
    Photo Website: http://www.jeremynative.com Please check out

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremynative View Post
    I like to imagine everyone on mmo-champion forums is banned from the official forums..if you criticize blizzard or dont kiss ass...bye bye
    They banned me 2 days ago

  3. #223
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Look tmmrw lets say they said were removing the valor requirement from gear. Okay You can still do dailies for all this crap and dungeons to. What would happen? It's an extremely MINOR change that would all of a sudden make dungeons far more rewarding and dailies would still be more rewarding than they've ever been. In both instances whichever play style you choose would be rewarded and aside from the few forum trolls and the virtual peasant community who insists that I toil and labor in grueling daily questing for virtual pixels NO ONE WOULD COMPLAIN. Quite the opposite I feel. The sigh of relief from the community would be palpable.

    Instead what we get is NOTHING. Why? Well likely because they want you to get used to the idea of doing these dailies for rewards. If they make it rewarding enough people will do it and sub to do it and it's easy enough content they can produce enough of it to keep up. It's a cynical and jaded calculation on their part and I really really really hope it bites them in the ass big time.
    My complaint in this MoP grind scheme is: Ghostcrawler said they don't want to return to the Aldor/Scryer style grinding again.

    I took him for his word, as the WotLK faction grinds were not TBC faction grinds.

    That word has been broken in MoP.

    When devs break their word, it's hard to believe in what they say again.

    Moral of the story: Don't make promises that can't be kept. It will sure upset players, as trust is lost.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  4. #224
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    They banned me awhile back for Diablo 3 nonsense. Drothvader the MVP put a really sad video up of him pleading with the community. It was arrogant, condescending and ultimately just pathetic. I hounded it for him a bit to much and got the banhammer. I post on a friends account on occasion now but I watch myself.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #225
    Well Q3 being a successful Q was a given seeing how MoP released in Q3 and subs went up. However, i think that Q4 will bring subs down. People get tired of playing the same game for so long, even with all the changes it's still getting old. Everyone should know that. If it wasn't slowly getting worse, then why didn't Blizz report day 1 sales like they usually do and not 1 week sales?

    I think this thread is pointless as we already knew that MoP came and increased subs in Q3. I would like to see this thread for Q4 however.

  6. #226
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Blizzard isn't rewarding people for every activity though and they likely never will. They don't reward people for epics with fishing. Dailies have always had SOME reward behind them but never as much. I'm okay with them having reward they just don't need to have this much reward and they don't need to have so much more reward than dungeons. If Blizzard genuinely feels what you outlined then they should have dungeons more rewarding. The playstyle I had grown accustomed to over the years is now bankrupt.
    Yet now with fishing dailies you get valor. You and I have already agreed that this daily shenanigans is atrocious.

    My point to the other poster was that Blizzard recognizes they need to be incentivizing all of the activities in the game. It's not a trend they started...they are actually kinda slow to the idea. The fact that they balk so much to artificially gate the rewards through the daily system shows that they are trying to latch people to the game somewhat. (those being the gotta have it now people) As much as I've railed on it before, I can see how they are trying to avoid a mass exodus of players consuming content too fast. I don't agree with their solution at all, but I understand.

    It's just since part way through TBC and really in WotLK we saw epic gear being rewarded for more than just raiding. As more and more activities are added, they will have to be brought in line with the established reward system to keep the incentive to do them. I mean they even had to put transmog and pets/mounts in the new Darkmoon system in order to get people doing that. B/c let's be honest, even if they designed the most awe inspiring content ever made, it would get kicked to the curb if the 'reward' was just to experience it.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    My complaint in this MoP grind scheme is: Ghostcrawler said they don't want to return to the Aldor/Scryer style grinding again.

    I took him for his word, as the WotLK faction grinds were not TBC faction grinds.

    That word has been broken in MoP.

    When devs break their word, it's hard to believe in what they say again.

    Moral of the story: Don't make promises that can't be kept. It will sure upset players, as trust is lost.

    Man that is stretching my memory back. I was the elf faction so scryer. I do remember doing their grind but it was mostly turn ins wasn't it? I had 2 alts and a main and the 2 alts just contributed everything ring or tome they had to the main and eventually he hit exalted. I remember their being dailies for it I think. In large part though I just bought items to turn in.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #228
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremynative View Post
    I like to imagine everyone on mmo-champion forums is banned from the official forums..if you criticize blizzard or dont kiss ass...bye bye
    About what happens.

    And we're banned for the silliest reasons too, as the games they play are often the bait/report ones. So what they're doing at the WoW forums is sabotaging the game, and if Blizzard is worried by nay-sayers getting a toe-hold in trying to destroy the game, they gave them the keys to do so...as rabid fanbois who see any disagreement as evil.

    I'm never about killing WoW (Why? I love my Holy paladin to pieces!). Spent all that time suggesting means to improve gameplay. But it only takes upseting a few niche players who want it their way, and there you have it...banned. It's this rat like community that hurts WoW, in their selfishness they want only things for themselves, they can't/won't see the bigger picture...to improve WoW for MORE players to enjoy it. How/when/why that is to be debated, but the goal is a collective to IMPROVE the game.
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  9. #229
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Yet now with fishing dailies you get valor. .
    Come again? I didn't really do fishing this expansion so I guess I coulda missed that. In any event the valor gain is ultimately worthless if you can't do anything rewarding with it.

    The rest of what you outline though is the bigger problem with WoW and to an extent the developers have recognized this. The only reason people do anything in this game is for the reward. Boiled down to more or less the gear. That's a much bigger problem than daily quests or rep grinding. That's expressely why dailies have that gear so people feel compelled to do them and they eventually grow to like dailies because of it. Once you associate the reward with a specific action then in a very naked skinner box way people will eventually like it if they can overcome their initial resistance to it. I don't think many of them willl however but that's their calculation I'm guessing. It means people are by and large bored of everything except that feeling that they get when the reward center of the brain is stimulated from getting shiny purples. I understand their motivations I just don't think daily quests were necessary to do it. Look you only get 1000 valor a week anyway. If they took the daily quests out tmmrw I sitll wouldn't have had every piece by now. Their'd still be lots to for me to farm. Having said that the system need some tuning. Slowing people down is one thing but being bored because content is boring and unrewarding is alot worse I feel than being bored because you exhausted the supply of content. In the former I could always just go make an alt and do it over again for the reward. In the latter I have no desire to even play the game anymore.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-11-08 at 02:51 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I was the elf faction so scryer. I do remember doing their grind but it was mostly turn ins wasn't it?
    That's what current devs, who like to play with words, would call "Quadruple dipping". You could run TK complex (or SLab for Aldor) and get:
    1. Badges of Justice.
    2. Gear.
    3. Reputation.
    4. Turn-ins for other faction.
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-11-08 at 02:54 PM.

  11. #231
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    That's what current devs, with how they like to play with words, would call "Quadruple dipping". You could run TK (or SLabs for Aldor) complex and get:
    1. Badges of Justice.
    2. Gear.
    3. Reputation.
    4. Turn-ins for other faction.
    Did I get badges for those earlier dungeons? I thought it was only for MGT when IQOD came out? In any event yes you are quite accurate dungeons were vastly more rewarding and have been throughout the entirety of the game up until now when they are poop dick. Their was absolutely nothing wrong with that system the way we'eve more or less always had it in the game unless you embrace the cynical calculation made by the developers that the rep system wasn't being exploited properly as a means to keep people subscribed. As a consumer I don't see why anyone supports this behavior. Especially if your a long term supporter of the game and you've had it so much better in the past.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #232
    I just found it weird they basically used the same numbers as last time (Over 10 million subscribers and approx. 2.7 million copies sold first week). Why wouldn't they update both numbers especially the number of copies sold? Kind of comes off as well we didn't lie but we just didn't want to tell the whole truth either.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Did I get badges for those earlier dungeons? I thought it was only for MGT when IQOD came out?
    If memory doesn't lie to me, you were getting Badges of Justice only from running heroics and KZ (not other raids), then later on it was changed so other raid bosses would drop badges too. MGT/SWP patch just brought us new badge vendor, that's it.
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-11-08 at 03:01 PM.

  14. #234
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    If memory doesn't lie to me, you were getting Badges of Justice only from running heroics and KZ (not other raids), then later on it was changed so other raid bosses would drop badges too. MGT/SWP patch just brought us new badge vendor, that's it.
    Wind Trader Zharym had the heroic daily quest. I forgot about that guy in Shattrath. HAH. I even did daily quests inside dungeons. You could also get them from the shattered sun dailies I forgot about that. In no way did I need to do dailies to spend them though. Big difference from now. Mists is simply not TBC like at all.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #235
    The Lightbringer Kevyne-Shandris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Did I get badges for those earlier dungeons? I thought it was only for MGT when IQOD came out? In any event yes you are quite accurate dungeons were vastly more rewarding and have been throughout the entirety of the game up until now when they are poop dick. Their was absolutely nothing wrong with that system the way we'eve more or less always had it in the game unless you embrace the cynical calculation made by the developers that the rep system wasn't being exploited properly as a means to keep people subscribed. As a consumer I don't see why anyone supports this behavior. Especially if your a long term supporter of the game and you've had it so much better in the past.
    Some of us didn't play in TBC. I came in a year into WotLK from EQ2 (having burned out). For those not playing then, the grind is a grind. I finished the Aldor/Scryer achievement just before MoP was released, and the grind was switching to the other faction. I had to go from Aldor to Scryers in a day that didn't have the tokens to just buy to switch (and if any were available so expensive to not be worth it). So I spent days JUST grinding for those turn ins. It was remembering the endless shard runs from EQ2's TSO...the very reason I burned out of EQ2, again. I was so sick of Dampscale eyes that dropped like 1 in 4. As a Holy paladin I killed thousands of basilisks to get them.

    Even 2 expansions later, it was a chore. I got so fed up with it, I stopped doing the last rep grind I had in TBC.

    There's getting rep, and there's making a game a second job. TBC style grinding is not fun and turns out to be a job if you want to complete it within your lifetime (as you have to fit that grind into the current expansion duties, too).
    From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes. They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."
    Blizzard's blame game in action: Deleting 6,100+ of Kevyne's posts and threads from the WoW forums.

  16. #236
    Where are news from the front page? There was something about more frequent updates

  17. #237
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Some of us didn't play in TBC. I came in a year into WotLK from EQ2 (having burned out). For those not playing then, the grind is a grind. I finished the Aldor/Scryer achievement just before MoP was released, and the grind was switching to the other faction. I had to go from Aldor to Scryers in a day that didn't have the tokens to just buy to switch (and if any were available so expensive to not be worth it). So I spent days JUST grinding for those turn ins. It was remembering the endless shard runs from EQ2's TSO...the very reason I burned out of EQ2, again. I was so sick of Dampscale eyes that dropped like 1 in 4. As a Holy paladin I killed thousands of basilisks to get them.

    Even 2 expansions later, it was a chore. I got so fed up with it, I stopped doing the last rep grind I had in TBC.

    There's getting rep, and there's making a game a second job. TBC style grinding is not fun and turns out to be a job if you want to complete it within your lifetime (as you have to fit that grind into the current expansion duties, too).
    Well I agree. The game has progressively moved away from that crap over the years and has been a success because of it. In fact overall that's the history of what made warcraft the success that it was. Moving away from outmoded and purist mmo styles and systems like reputation grinded. However it's simply a non starter for discussion when people try and compare the rep grind in mists to TBC. It's simply not true and the ignorance on the large part of the community is so vast in this it's stunning. Even if it was true then it's simple foolish that the developers would turn back to this. It's not 6 years ago. The game moved on and progressed on. It should have kept doing that.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rider View Post
    Where are news from the front page? There was something about more frequent updates
    Mike Morhaime was beating his chest that they are "happy more frequent content is being pushed"... but i'm not seeing it. No new raid in 5.1 and next tier will likely come with the next book around late April next year...

    Dailies and the Brawler nonsense is not real content and they will figure that out when they hit 8 million subs in Q4.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Look tmmrw lets say they said were removing the valor requirement from gear. Okay You can still do dailies for all this crap and dungeons to. What would happen? It's an extremely MINOR change that would all of a sudden make dungeons far more rewarding and dailies would still be more rewarding than they've ever been. In both instances whichever play style you choose would be rewarded and aside from the few forum trolls and the virtual peasant community who insists that I toil and labor in grueling daily questing for virtual pixels NO ONE WOULD COMPLAIN. Quite the opposite I feel. The sigh of relief from the community would be palpable.

    Instead what we get is NOTHING. Why? Well likely because they want you to get used to the idea of doing these dailies for rewards. If they make it rewarding enough people will do it and sub to do it and it's easy enough content they can produce enough of it to keep up. It's a cynical and jaded calculation on their part and I really really really hope it bites them in the ass big time.

    Ultimately all of this stems from their dumb ass decision to delink dungeon and rep grinding because rep grinding wasn't fully being exploited as a ridiculous grind. I don't expect it will last but who knows at this point.


    ---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 02:25 PM ----------



    Well yea that's kinda the point. Even casuals like to progress and I can tell you my casual friends who still play aren't progressing and are leaving. Without dailies their isn't a pve form of reliable progress that they can count on for reward. That's it. They don't like being subject to RNG from fucking LFR. They were happier with "hard" dungeons because they weren't bads they were just casuals.
    I suspect that you seem them as being less rewarding because you have not gathered their full fruit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevyne-Shandris View Post
    Some of us didn't play in TBC. I came in a year into WotLK from EQ2 (having burned out). For those not playing then, the grind is a grind. I finished the Aldor/Scryer achievement just before MoP was released, and the grind was switching to the other faction. I had to go from Aldor to Scryers in a day that didn't have the tokens to just buy to switch (and if any were available so expensive to not be worth it). So I spent days JUST grinding for those turn ins. It was remembering the endless shard runs from EQ2's TSO...the very reason I burned out of EQ2, again. I was so sick of Dampscale eyes that dropped like 1 in 4. As a Holy paladin I killed thousands of basilisks to get them.

    Even 2 expansions later, it was a chore. I got so fed up with it, I stopped doing the last rep grind I had in TBC.

    There's getting rep, and there's making a game a second job. TBC style grinding is not fun and turns out to be a job if you want to complete it within your lifetime (as you have to fit that grind into the current expansion duties, too).
    Achieving Hero of Shattrath achievement is not a requirement heck it does not even contribute to your Achievement Points, it is a Feat of Strength, one that tells how insane a player can be...

  20. #240
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Depends what patch 5.2 brings I guess... are we talking late Winter/early Spring.

    I might unsub after 5.1 has been out a month and get some more paragon levels on ze WD.

    I prefer playing WoW in fits and starts these days, suits me after 7 years or so.

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