Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    523
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I think Blizzard is nerfing Warriors in the right direction. Warriors should keep their defensive utility but lose their offensive control and immunities. Basically, Warriors should have high burst, high sustained, some control, high passive defense, low healing and average mobility.

    The only thing Blizzard needs to do with Warriors is to put shockwave on a 40 second cooldown and to remove the glyph of heroic leap. They should also revert Heroic leap back to a 1 minute cooldown.
    I don't think those would be any real fixes with keeping balance on, because they would have to double shockwave and heroic leap damage for them to be "viable" again, if you look at it with PvE side... and bang, that already gives more burst issues again, doesn't it? Although they could just reduce bladestorm cd to make it more useful (1min?), or increase that damage a bit so people would consider other choices than just shockwave on PvP.

  2. #42
    Bloodsail Admiral Lulbalance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Barely Duelist
    Posts
    1,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    I made a warrior on the PTR, i have never gotten my warrior to level 80 on live, i wanted to see how good they where. Warriors are ridiculous, i can one shot anything with the one shot macro, and i rarely ever die. when i use my one shot macro i generally hit things for around 200-300k instantly then carry on doing 90-120k crits non stop for about 10 seconds. i was doing 3s with 2 other warriors we won every single match within 5 seconds of entering. this is no extradition, CD stacking needs to be looked at. Also, if you can kite good and use second wind + defensive stance you never die. I entered a 2v2 match on my own because my team mate was unable to join against a disc priest and a ret paladin, i managed to kill the priest in under 3 seconds and proceeded to kill the ret paladin by kiting and waiting on CDs, warriors will be completely viable when 5.1 drops, maybe even too viable.
    HAY GUISE check it out.. a bee hive.. imma just kick it real quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post

    Any caster who gets interrupted by Disrupting Shout's 10 yard range should uninstall the game. Any Warrior who actually uses it should do the same.

    Mind enlightening us why then?

    Because as far as most people are concerned warriors have no trouble getting in melee range and having a aeo silence seems pretty nice.

    And whats is wrong with 10 yars....blood elf silence range is much shorter.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by NaRk View Post
    I can't believe that warriors are complaining about this removal or Gag Order...Warriors are already the class with most interrupts in the game.
    1) You can Charge twice every 20 sec or once every 12 sec to interrupt any spell (ranged interrupt - 12 sec CD).
    2) You can pummel to interrupt enemy and silence for 4 sec (melee range - 15 sec CD)
    3) You can use disrupting shout at mid range to interrupt and silence for 4 sec (ranged - 40 sec CD)
    4) You can use Shockwave to interrupt and stun/silence for 4 sec (ranged - 20 sec CD)
    5) You can use Spell Reflection to reflect one cast every 25 sec (better than interrupting) (ranged - 25 sec CD)

    So, between all those abilities, the caster has almost no time to cast against an warrior. The only time he is allowed to cast is when the warrior is Freezed, disoriented or feared.
    The interruption of casts and control of the battlefield is surely the best thing a warrior already has, he doesn't need another Gag Order to do so.
    Tell me any other class who has this amount of interrupts? Most melees just have 2 of them, warriors have 5!!
    Nobody is complaining about the removal of gag order. It was a good change.

    The caster doesn't even need to cast anything seeing how every single "caster" out there is using only instant casts. I can think of only 2 things that actually hurt if they're not interrupted, which are chaos bolt and frost bomb.

    None the less, i'll be more than glad to see warior burst nerf, if they give us good sustained damage in return, which is horseshit at the moment, in comparison with ferals,death knights and any offensive caster with the exception of frost mage.

  5. #45
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    920
    personally i don't take avatar in PVP i got stormbolt, i also don't use 2nd wind. I still own people pretty hard, warriors are just fotm atm, when they nerf them a bit, and it actually takes some skill to play then you will see a lot less warriors
    18 - 9 - 2012 Find the significance in this date, and you will also find the revitalization of the best game ever.

  6. #46
    None the less, i'll be more than glad to see warior burst nerf, if they give us good sustained damage in return, which is horseshit at the moment, in comparison with ferals,death knights and any offensive caster with the exception of frost mage.
    Overall, sustained is very low for everyone by design in MoP, and Warrior's sustained DPS is already one of the biggest in the game, if not the biggest in the game, and Dev said that dont want to touch mobility too much, so I wouldnt expect any "compensation" in that department

  7. #47
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    920
    the pvp power healing nerf only applies when healing other players, not yourself..
    18 - 9 - 2012 Find the significance in this date, and you will also find the revitalization of the best game ever.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Overall, sustained is very low for everyone by design in MoP, and Warrior's sustained DPS is already one of the biggest in the game, if not the biggest in the game, and Dev said that dont want to touch mobility too much, so I wouldnt expect any "compensation" in that department
    Uhh, no.

    Have you played against a frost death knight? Or against a feral druid? or a BM hunter?

    I know it's stupid to pull those random-ass numbers, but just for comparison - my warrior's overpower crits a paladin ( while under CS ) for 25-30k. My DK's frost strike crits him for 35-40k. I won't even mention 55-70k obliterates against 30-40k mortal strikes.
    The cooldown burst, however...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Uhh, no.

    Have you played against a frost death knight? Or against a feral druid? or a BM hunter?

    I know it's stupid to pull those random-ass numbers, but just for comparison - my warrior's overpower crits a paladin ( while under CS ) for 25-30k. My DK's frost strike crits him for 35-40k. I won't even mention 55-70k obliterates against 30-40k mortal strikes.
    The cooldown burst, however...
    Feral and DK hit like trucks, probably more than warriors, but they are still pretty close. (Bm not that much)
    And yes "damage per ability" isnt really helpful, damage done at the end of arena is a better tool to monitor that, and warriors have no problems there

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Feral and DK hit like trucks, probably more than warriors, but they are still pretty close. (Bm not that much)
    And yes "damage per ability" isnt really helpful, damage done at the end of arena is a better tool to monitor that, and warriors have no problems there
    Ferals - yeah, since they sacrifice a lot of their damage for cc / possibly off-healing.
    Death knights do deal considerably more damage than warriors over long periods of time. Not sure what game are you playing, but in my matchups they do end up on the top of the list @ TSG. Shadowcleave demolock sometimes beats me though, but that's due to massive aoe damage and dots.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Ferals - yeah, since they sacrifice a lot of their damage for cc / possibly off-healing.
    Death knights do deal considerably more damage than warriors over long periods of time. Not sure what game are you playing, but in my matchups they do end up on the top of the list @ TSG. Shadowcleave demolock sometimes beats me though, but that's due to massive aoe damage and dots.
    That's pretty much what I say, Ferals and Dk are the only challengers, I dont think a lock should ever outdps a warrior atm, even with multidoting.
    So top 3 sustained, not really what I'd call horseshit atm.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    this is no extradition, CD stacking needs to be looked at.
    Unfortunately Blizzard has no CD extradition treaty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    That's pretty much what I say, Ferals and Dk are the only challengers, I dont think a lock should ever outdps a warrior atm, even with multidoting.
    So top 3 sustained, not really what I'd call horseshit atm.
    Well, with the imminent change of shockwave,second wind and upcoming change of intimidating shout - warrior won't bring anything to the game but this "sort of good" sustained damage, being just a sturdier version of death knights with much weaker offensive capabilities.

  14. #54
    frost mage is fine l2p

    ps. oneshotmacro op unban swifty
    Last edited by Friyn; 2012-11-09 at 02:27 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Strah View Post
    Well, with the imminent change of shockwave,second wind and upcoming change of intimidating shout - warrior won't bring anything to the game but this "sort of good" sustained damage, being just a sturdier version of death knights with much weaker offensive capabilities.
    Any source on the shockwave+Second Wind change ?
    Also even with a 1m30 intimidating shout (Still 30sec less than a PvP trinket) Warriors are still swimming in an utility overload
    I dont know about any second wind change but they also happen to have the best survivability in the game right now
    And the best burst
    And the best mobility
    And close to the best sustained DPS in the game

    Obviously nerfs are coming, but there's a long way before we'll see Warriors as some kind of "Inferior DK", In cata warriors was just a damage machine, so it was doomed to be either overpowered or underpowered, MoP design have the tools to stop that from happening
    Last edited by Gangresnake; 2012-11-09 at 02:50 AM.

  16. #56
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    24,721
    I thought mages had the best Burst? O_o
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    Feral and DK hit like trucks, probably more than warriors, but they are still pretty close. (Bm not that much)
    And yes "damage per ability" isnt really helpful, damage done at the end of arena is a better tool to monitor that, and warriors have no problems there
    DKs don't actually hit like trucks, they just apply high preassure that can be relieved with defensive play/counter preassure/cc/cd rotation. And dmg per ability matters a lot more then dmg done at the end of arena and it's easy to see from simple example:
    1) Class A does 600K dmg over 10 sec through steady dmg averaging on 60K dmg/sec
    2) Class B does 450K dmg over 10 sec through 200K 1 global spike and 250K dmg over rest 9 sec in sum averaging at 45K dmg/sec

    Thing is Class B have advantage over Class A, becouse that single spike can finish game off much earlier then Class A preassure, becouse it's harder to react to, harder to deal with and room for error is insanelly smaller (especially when Class B have another partner dealing dmg, potentially oneshoting target through combined dmg spike). You're sorely misinformed or probably never played warlock, and since i did play lock a lot i can tell you that numerous amount of times my team doubled or tripled another teams dmg chart, but that wasn't enough whille 1 good burst sequence (for example from RMP or Hunt-Rog-X) was enough to kill my teammate.

    Yet again i'm not belittling sustain dmg factor in arena since there're always good compositions pushing high on outlasting another teams, but those teams need consintency in offhealing/avoiding dmg/living through cds and sadly Taste for Blood stacking system denies it.

    Lets say Blizz leave Taste for Blood maximum count at 2 stacks + reduce rage cost/stack by 10-15 (so it would deal same dmg as slam but at a zero/lower cost and off gcd) - warriors will be fine, since this expansion we actually have enough utility to work with instead of zerg one target before we die.

    And then another possibility - Blizz going hard at warriors utility without touching Taste for Blood system. Even for best warriors win concistency will go down the drain, becouse when you're unlucky with procs you've nothing to fallback on. Warriors will be frustrated, but thing is rest will be frustrated too becouse oneshot potential will remain the same and will be comming into play from time to time.

    Utility needs some looking at too, specifically shockwave - it's cd is too short and using it comes at no cost. Closest abilities to it are in monks arsenal - leg sweep and fists of fury, first have 5 yard range essentially making it single target stun / 45 sec cd whille 2d comes at the cost of 3 chi, have lower range and 25 sec cd. Some may say that comparing shockwave to monk stuns is apples to oranges and i ignore different skillsets blabla, but warriors have undeniably better burst/more reliable mobility/ better offensive cds/better defensive cds. Generally looking at ladders warriors are clearly outshining monks and we've best stun in game aviable every 20 sec at no cost. Imo doubling cd will still allow shockwave to remain a great competitive choice without throwing warriors in the gutter.

    P.S. Bladestorm needs some tuning since it's nowhere as powerfull as rest choices in its tier.
    Last edited by Nyaldee; 2012-11-09 at 07:04 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    -snip-
    Some good points here. Taste for Blood really needs to be looked at. I mean really, TfB is garbage, needs to go, got it. But the rarity of a 5 stack in competitive pvp play are ridiculously low. And I agree that having a move like that (stars align I can one shot you) in the game is poor design, because there is next to no defense for it. But nerfing our utility and keeping TfB leads to the exact problems you elude to in your post. You want us to have ramp up time? Give it to us in the form of something we can control, not this garbage proc chance that is completely separate of your stats and also completely out of your control (outside of "HERPDERP SHOULD I GO FOR 5 STACKS?!?" -_- ).

    What really is garbage though, is that our CD stacking can, and will be (by good players) countered, yet it's what a lot of people cry about the loudest. I mean honestly, just cause a few videos go out (news flash: videos will tend to highlight what you want them to, i.e., if they are trying to show warrior burst, they are going to show you that) with the 5 stack TfB bs people have started calling for damage nerfs.

    At least call for the right thing to be nerfed, or flat out removed, and that is TfB. CD stacking bothering you? Honestly it's a L2play issue there. Want to bitch about gag order and our myriad of different stuns? You probably have a more legit beef there.

    But the thing is, either our damage needs to be nerfed, or our control does. Not both. And I, for one, am glad they went at the utility a little bit. Gag order is for sure OP, but other than that one, I don't see anything else that cannot be countered by good play.

    Nerfing our damage would just shoe-horn us even more into being a one trick pony, as the less sustained damage we do outside of CDs, the more reliant upon those very CDs we become. Or is it that people want free kills on warriors like most of cata again?
    Last edited by Redlikemyrage; 2012-11-09 at 07:19 AM.

  19. #59
    Dreadlord Nykolas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Birmingham UK
    Posts
    927
    Quote Originally Posted by Arteous View Post
    i stopped reading there.
    My warrior is level 79 on live, and i was just pointing out that it takes no skill to chain CDs together and insta win.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 10:08 AM ----------

    As, i said before, this was without using TfB. (i was also in full malevolent gear, full enchants and full gems.) what i did to get this was chain my CDs together, Dragons roar, throw in a colossus smash and then a mortal strike followed (if needed, which i doubt you will) an execute.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nykolas View Post
    My warrior is level 79 on live, and i was just pointing out that it takes no skill to chain CDs together and insta win.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 10:08 AM ----------

    As, i said before, this was without using TfB. (i was also in full malevolent gear, full enchants and full gems.) what i did to get this was chain my CDs together, Dragons roar, throw in a colossus smash and then a mortal strike followed (if needed, which i doubt you will) an execute.
    Bad pvp warrior spotted. Which in turn leads me to believe you were going against bad opponents as well. Shockwave > Dragon Roar in every way possible.

    In competitive pvp (read: 3v3) you can, and will be CC'd and/or peeled by a competent team. It really is not hard to counter warrior CD stacking, badkids are going to get warriors nerfed for no good reason. -_-

    And if you want to attack any class for having an instant win button, talk about hunters. But even there you don't have much merit, as again, I've seen, and successfully done so myself, countered a hunter with all his CDs up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •