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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    The Black Prince Motives? [Possible Spoilers]

    Looking at the audio from the new 5.1 datamine it seems to me that Wrathion is playing both sides to go all out, while at the same time fearing what war might do to Pandaria and the rest of Azeroth if Sha gets out of control.

    He speaks of the King Varian being a principle man and questions if that can win the war for the alliance and praises the alliance champions in conquering a battle with the horde. Wrathion also asks if the Horde is strong/good enough to rule all of Azeroth. He praises The horde on defeating the Ally general and asks to prove ourselves again to him.

    Here is the question. Why is he motivating champions (us) to prove ourselves to him via the Horde vs Alliance war while at the same time warning us of the consequences of our war and the Sha? It seems to me that him playing both sides and escalating the conflicts will breed Sha. Is his hopes that our war will take out powerful players on both sides to allow him to make his move on the battered Horde/Alliance with limited resistance?

    Now we know Hellscream will fall and reason is (most likely) sha corruption in attempts to control its power. Now you have to ask yourself this...did Wrathion want Hellscream gone and he did it by pretending to side with you and let the consequences of the war play out?

    If you did the rogue quests/paid attention to them, you would know that from the get-go Wrathion wanted anything that posed a threat to him eliminated. Wrathion was also for quite some time on Pandaria before we arrived. In this time he might have devised a plan to weaken both horde and the alliance by adding fuel to the fire so-to-speak.

    One might say that he wants us to prove ourselves via conquering the enemies of the Pandaren and slaying the evil that plagues this new land!...however Wrathion does not seem to be the "saving" type...not to mention if you think about it we also what plagues Pandaria with our war as well so...yeah.

    Thoughts on this?
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  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Hmm, well thought out theory (also fucking awesome avatar ).

    I still don't know if I should trust Wrathion or not.

    I mean..yes..I think he's trying to save us all and stop this mindless War...

    ...However, any ruler can be corrupt by the dark biting at the light shining from his mission.

    Power twists and breaks the strongest subjects of humanity.

    We may see such a thing occur with our friend here.
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  3. #3
    It's just an outcome of writers messing up when there's too many of them, and lack of one good coherent watcher to make sure people write things down as supposed to. (Garrosh is the most glaring of mistakes done by writers, which due to outlash is made crazy now)
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  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    It's just an outcome of writers messing up when there's too many of them, and lack of one good coherent watcher to make sure people write things down as supposed to. (Garrosh is the most glaring of mistakes done by writers, which due to outlash is made crazy now)
    Uhhh actually if you pay attention to the first time Garrosh was introduced, you can tell this was all planned out.

    Don't know why people give the Writers at Blizzard so much shit.

    The story for WoW and its characters are fantastic.

    And I actually want to BE one of those Writers one day.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Uhhh actually if you pay attention to the first time Garrosh was introduced, you can tell this was all planned out.

    Don't know why people give the Writers at Blizzard so much shit.

    The story for WoW and its characters are fantastic.

    And I actually want to BE one of those Writers one day.
    Blizzard writing team created so many plot armors, retcons and mary sues that its wonder someone likes the story in its current state.

  6. #6
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Blizzard writing team created so many plot armors, retcons and mary sues that its wonder someone likes the story in its current state.
    The only Mary Sue I consider in the Warcraft Story is Thrall, but that's also due to the failure in Story Conclusion and development that was Cataclysm.

    I mean, Verdugo, I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one in entire game who loves this story. :P
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Uhhh actually if you pay attention to the first time Garrosh was introduced, you can tell this was all planned out.

    Don't know why people give the Writers at Blizzard so much shit.

    The story for WoW and its characters are fantastic.

    And I actually want to BE one of those Writers one day.
    No, it most definately was not. When Garrosh was first time introduced, he was wimp whom was showed by Thrall the truth about his father. After that he was built to be a war-hero but since his fate was left in hands of 2 different writers, out of which one first of all sucked and second went his own way the character of Garrosh was entirely mulled up.

    The lack of direction in his character "growth" is expesially evident in Cata content where in one zone he is like an honourable warrior and in second a total lunatic (as in the books surrounding him)
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  8. #8
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    No, it most definately was not. When Garrosh was first time introduced, he was wimp whom was showed by Thrall the truth about his father. After that he was built to be a war-hero but since his fate was left in hands of 2 different writers, out of which one first of all sucked and second went his own way the character of Garrosh was entirely mulled up.

    The lack of direction in his character "growth" is expesially evident in Cata content where in one zone he is like an honourable warrior and in second a total lunatic (as in the books surrounding him)
    He was a wimp who thought his dad died a corrupted idiot and betrayer of his people.

    Thrall came, knocked sense into him, and so started the cogwheels in Garrosh's mind saying "Hey, wake the hell up. Your people out there are fighting a new war against a new enemy. Pick up your axe and FIGHT."

    As Christie Golden put it, Garrosh has a "weak character". Even if he became a tough, hubris filled douche bag over time, it's all a cover over his weak core.

    Wrath came, and he continued to gain confidence, while still having a LOT to learn about what it meant to lead and be a leader.

    Cataclysm came and with the mantle of responsibility handed to him from Thrall, Garrosh did panic if you read the books. You could tell he was nervous and a bit brash.

    He kept his mind open and continued to grow in knowledge, but along that path his pride corrupted it and has warped him into the Garrosh we see in Mists.

    When he first gained confidence and felt he needed to "save" the Horde, and more importantly the Orcs, he became hell bent on keeping them safe and obliterating the Alliance.

    This pride that I spoke of has grown to a point he no longer has a sense of honor, mercy, nor logic.

    He's brash, he's insane, he's bloodthirsty and he's the equivalent of a Fel Orc.

    That's what's happened since BC with Garrosh, and I've liked his development.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    The only Mary Sue I consider in the Warcraft Story is Thrall, but that's also due to the failure in Story Conclusion and development that was Cataclysm.

    I mean, Verdugo, I'm 100% sure I'm not the only one in entire game who loves this story. :P
    /sign

    And Thralls power is too godlike, I mean come on, he was able to somehow "stop" Jaina who is said to be the most powerful mage alive while she was using the focussing iris, the most dangerous magical artifact (according to Kalec) while at that moment he was just a shaman with no extra aspect and/or dragonsoul powers.

    Besides him, I don't know any Mary Sues who could be compared to him.

    And I love the story as well, and I'm keen on knowing how the story will play out.

  10. #10
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    /sign

    And Thralls power is too godlike, I mean come on, he was able to somehow "stop" Jaina who is said to be the most powerful mage alive while she was using the focussing iris, the most dangerous magical artifact (according to Kalec) while at that moment he was just a shaman with no extra aspect and/or dragonsoul powers.

    Besides him, I don't know any Mary Sues who could be compared to him.

    And I love the story as well, and I'm keen on knowing how the story will play out.
    Exactly.

    I don't consider Malfurion a Mary Sue cuz he's actually gotten his ass whooped quite a few times?

    Thrall though? He LITERALLY looks like the equivalent of Green Jesus.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Exactly.

    I don't consider Malfurion a Mary Sue cuz he's actually gotten his ass whooped quite a few times?

    Thrall though? He LITERALLY looks like the equivalent of Green Jesus.
    You must not know about the earlier days of poor Thrall. Hint: His name translates to slave.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    You must not know about the earlier days of poor Thrall. Hint: His name translates to Slave.
    No I used to love his character and remember him from back in the day. Wrath, for instance, he almost lost to Garrosh.

    It's just..Cataclysm made him into the Green Jesus of Warcraft.

    If he had become a Dragon Aspect I would've actually considered rage quitting WoW.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    No I used to love his character and remember him from back in the day. Wrath, for instance, he almost lost to Garrosh.

    It's just..Cataclysm made him into the Green Jesus of Warcraft.

    If he had become a Dragon Aspect I would've actually considered rage quitting WoW.
    Ah yes, i know what you mean. I'm right there with you.

  14. #14
    The Black Prince is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, but his overall goals seem to be preservation of himself and the one thing he holds close to him, Azeroth. Remember, he can be called the only "pure" Black Dragon, and back when they were pure, the Black Dragons were the defenders of the "earth", aka, the planet Azeroth.

    He knows that the Burning Legion is going to return, and it even hints that Sargeras himself will be with them. Wrathion knows that he himself can't stop it, and other defenders like the Aspects have lost much of the power they had. In the end, only the Alliance and the Horde standing together, with the best of the best, will be able to stop the coming apocalypse.

    His plan seems to be two-fold...

    1) Let the Horde and Alliance fight each other to cull out the weak. He also carries out his own personal tests to make sure these "chosen heroes" are truly strong enough to handle the coming storm.

    2) Slowly subvert the two sides to work together just before the final hour. He will do this by feigning allegiance to each heroes faction, all the while promoting both. He will get in the good graces of both sides and outfit them with gear for the coming war. His final plan will be something to unit the two sides.

    That is how I see it happening.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by D-angeL View Post
    /sign

    And Thralls power is too godlike, I mean come on, he was able to somehow "stop" Jaina who is said to be the most powerful mage alive while she was using the focussing iris, the most dangerous magical artifact (according to Kalec) while at that moment he was just a shaman with no extra aspect and/or dragonsoul powers.

    Besides him, I don't know any Mary Sues who could be compared to him.

    And I love the story as well, and I'm keen on knowing how the story will play out.
    Except he wasn't able to "stop" her. If it wasn't for Kalec coming in she was ready, and about to kill him. He was doing everything, EVERYTHING, in his power to stop her, and could only barely barely keep her in one spot, meaning while she was attacking him he barely survived and almost let loose the wave onto Org. He wasn't godlike here, he was as normal as anyone else and was shown how strong he is as a shammy but was nothing compared to the power the Focusing Iris has.

  16. #16
    I agree he's playing both sides, but I believe his motives and plans more benevolent. It's in Azeroth's best interest that the Horde and Alliance alike be strong and undistracted. Let them get it out of the way and gain battle experience in the process before the Legion comes rather than fight a two front war. He's likely already got quite a bit to do with behind the scenes in both factions. His power lies in remaining in the background so he'll likely never do anything drastic unless the situation is truly dire.

    Is he acting in his best interest? Probably. What about our best interest? His best interest and our's are the same. We stand together or fall alone and that little whelplings making sure it's the former.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    The Black Prince is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, but his overall goals seem to be preservation of himself and the one thing he holds close to him, Azeroth. Remember, he can be called the only "pure" Black Dragon, and back when they were pure, the Black Dragons were the defenders of the "earth", aka, the planet Azeroth.

    He knows that the Burning Legion is going to return, and it even hints that Sargeras himself will be with them. Wrathion knows that he himself can't stop it, and other defenders like the Aspects have lost much of the power they had. In the end, only the Alliance and the Horde standing together, with the best of the best, will be able to stop the coming apocalypse.

    His plan seems to be two-fold...

    1) Let the Horde and Alliance fight each other to cull out the weak. He also carries out his own personal tests to make sure these "chosen heroes" are truly strong enough to handle the coming storm.

    2) Slowly subvert the two sides to work together just before the final hour. He will do this by feigning allegiance to each heroes faction, all the while promoting both. He will get in the good graces of both sides and outfit them with gear for the coming war. His final plan will be something to unit the two sides.

    That is how I see it happening.
    Here is the thing though. It is a double edge sword no matter how you look at it. If you were to cull out the weak and leave the few strong...will that few be an army strong enough to handle the second coming of the legion?

    As for plan #2...well the only way i see it happening is that the Sha gets so out of control that working together is the only way to stop it...however given what blizz so far have revealed it does not look like there will be collaboration to the likely hood of icecrown.

    Also i think his self preservation > being the pure black dragon aka a pure EarthWarder. If Azeroth was truly his #1 priority he would not instigate conflict between factions but rather try to show error of ways in the manner how the Shadow Pan/Argus Celestials would. I mean it COULD be a 1st-get-burned-before-learning type thing but that is pretty reckless with how quickly Sha have taken over already one of the oldest and highly intelligent races (Mantid)
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Exactly.

    I don't consider Malfurion a Mary Sue cuz he's actually gotten his ass whooped quite a few times?

    Thrall though? He LITERALLY looks like the equivalent of Green Jesus.
    Didn't we have to save Thralls assets at least twice during his "Green Jesus" phase. From the SI:7 in the goblin starter area (talk about humiliating). Then again when he got his "soul split between the elements". When Thrall get's it handed to him it is pretty hard.
    Last edited by kage; 2012-11-07 at 07:07 PM.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Thrall though? He LITERALLY looks like the equivalent of Green Jesus.
    Well...yeah i mean Shammans can self-res, walk on water, heal the wounded...see where I'm going with this :P
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  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnlogic View Post
    Well...yeah i mean Shammans can self-res, walk on water, heal the wounded...see where I'm going with this :P
    ....Oh God now I have to call our shaman Steve Jesus.
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