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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Unable to kill an AFK warrior due to Second Wind

    Hi guys!

    I was dueling a friend of mine (who was standing still) just to test my damage tonight, and I found myself (nearly) unable to kill him due to his Second Wind while below 35% hp. Keep in mind I am disc as main specc, so I am mostly wearing spirit gear.

    Am I only having issues due to my gear or am I simply doing something wrong? Others having issues as well?

    His avg ilvl is roughly the same as mine, but he does have some more pvp gear than I do. As it is now, I can only burst him down after waiting for a 3 orb Devouring Plague

  2. #2
    He has more resilience then you, probably means you have less then ideal pvp power. Second wind is strong but not that strong. Its all about the pvp powers in pvp
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  3. #3
    Second wind is overpowered, that's pretty much your answer.
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  4. #4
    Banned The Fiend's Avatar
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    Congrats.

    You in terrible PvP gear can kill a PvP geared warrior when you actually nuke him hard!

    What do you expect? Warriors to be facerolled in 5 globals?

  5. #5
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Congrats.

    You in terrible PvP gear can kill a PvP geared warrior when you actually nuke him hard!

    What do you expect? Warriors to be facerolled in 5 globals?

    I don't expect an AFK warrior to outheal my damage tbh.. That's my point :P
    Last edited by stians; 2012-11-01 at 12:28 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by stians View Post
    I don't expect an AFK warrior to outheal my damage tbh.. That's my point :P
    He can't, honestly. The problem was a) your gear b) your spell choices c) you or d) all three. As a general tip, Warriors WILL turtle up about 30% and switch to Def stance, so try and save your Shadowpet for the turtle, and pray your Death crits.

    As things stand right now, a Disc/Holy priest cannot, cannot, kill a warrior of equal or even lesser skill. For now.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer
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    If he has 360k hp it ticks for 10,8k each second (in duel areas that is, it is different in PvP zones afaik). If he has 60% resilience and sits in defensive stance he will recieve (1-0,6)(1-0,25) = 30% of your damage. That means if you don't have any PvP power on gear you need to do more than 36k PvE dummy DPS to outdps his second wind healing.
    Assuming you have some sort of PvP power (lets say 20%), he will recieve 36% of your damage, you need do more than 30k PvE dummy DPS to outdps his 10,8k HPS.

    So assuming you are shadow specced, and not terribly undergeared without any PvP power at all, then yes, you should definitely be able to kill a warrior in a duel who is afk.

    On the other hand. If you are equally geared and equal skill, then you will never be able to beat a warrior pre-5.1 in a duel if he is fighting back and knows what he is doing.

  8. #8
    The Patient aetti morkna's Avatar
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    Attonement probably shouldnt be able to output enough dps if the warrior is geared enough. Maybe im wrong there but thats kind of how i saw it.

    As shadow with 30% pvp power, i can even occasionally struggle to put the warrior down, if hes on me.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    I'm don't see the problem here...

    A healing spec can't deal enough damage to negate the limited healing of a dps spec...that sounds about right.

  10. #10
    Mind Spike Mind blast SW:death !?

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Ahahahah!
    This reminds me how AFK paladins could deal you 50% of your life in damage in TBC.
    Second Wind is a beast, anyway.

  12. #12
    The bad gear on your part is a big issue. I had the same problem on my fire mage when i dinged 90 and got myself at least the contenders set for the start. Once a warrior hit his 30% i could pump pyro crits with alter time back to back, inclusive combustion and it was like he would be immune. Of course i died in every warrior duel. Now that my gear is better it is a little bit less depressing. Still from a good warrior i just get destroyed. So many intercepts, silence, fear and the insane dmg i cant do shit. But now ive also won a few times against a warr

    Still, they know they are freaking op. Its no coincidence you have in many bgs 2-5 warriors and they also dont have a problem to charge you when they sit on 20% hp and you come by on your mount. It speaks for itself

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    I'm don't see the problem here...

    A healing spec can't deal enough damage to negate the limited healing of a dps spec...that sounds about right.
    That's complete garbage logic, and always has been. A healer can't out-DPS the healing of a DPS, but it's fine for a DPS's damage to out-DPS a Healer's healing. Seems like a double-standard, but it's been that way for years. Particularly, with melee.

  14. #14
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    I'm don't see the problem here...

    A healing spec can't deal enough damage to negate the limited healing of a dps spec...that sounds about right.
    Keep in mind I was shadow specced, I just had healing gear

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stians View Post
    Keep in mind I was shadow specced, I just had healing gear
    You're probably gemmed, enchanted and reforged for spirit instead of haste/mastery/crit which is worth at least 10% damage. You're using healer trinkets which are pretty terrible for DPS, thats another 10%. You're not using PvP power pvp gear which is another 10-20% damage.

    You're also a healer so you probably don't know how to burst as Shadow.

  16. #16
    Ok, am I insane or are people missing the point?

    PVP is not about your class being able to pick its nose while another player tries to kill you. That is not balance. Even a noob of roughly equivalent ilvl, pvp or otherwise, should be able to kill any player in pvp gear if they do nothing! Indeed, a pvp geared player should easily be able to kill even an aggressive and pvp geared player who DOES NOT TRY TO MITIGATE DAMAGE! This means this player was (probably) not in defensive stance, was not interrupting, was not kiting/stunning/running behind during casted spells, and, most importantly, was not even present but was still difficult to kill.

    Don't get me wrong, I kill warriors all the time on my spriest. Honestly, I think warriors aren't are all that bad. The problem with Warriors are that they are boring. They will never kill you (if you are geared). However, it takes WAY too long to kill them. Instead, in bgs and arenas, you just cc them and kill the healer/other dps. Then, you murder them. Oh yeah, they do great damage and have tons of interrupts, sure. But, they die very fast without second wind (hilarious when you find a noob that didn't take it). Second wind is necessary in some sense to make them viable. However, at the moment, it is too passive. Second Wind should be a cooldown that requires them to waste resources, like a rogues recuperate or an spriest's mana, to use. Having it be automatic and not skill based is wrong. This is what makes it seem op.
    Last edited by Dust45; 2012-11-05 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Grammar

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dust45 View Post
    Ok, am I insane or are people missing the point?

    PVP is not about your class being able to pick its nose while another player tries to kill you. That is not balance. Even a noob of roughly equivalent ilvl, pvp or otherwise, should be able to kill any player in pvp gear if they do nothing! Indeed, a pvp geared player should easily be able to kill even an aggressive and pvp geared player who DOES NOT TRY TO MITIGATE DAMAGE! This means this player was (probably) not in defensive stance, was not interrupting, was not kiting/stunning/running behind during casted spells, and, most importantly, was not even present but was still difficult to kill.

    Don't get me wrong, I kill warriors all the time on my spriest. Honestly, I think warriors aren't are all that bad. The problem with Warriors are that they are boring. They will never kill you (if you are geared). However, it takes WAY too long to kill them. Instead, in bgs and arenas, you just cc them and kill the healer/other dps. Then, you murder them. Oh yeah, they do great damage and have tons of interrupts, sure. But, they die very fast without second wind (hilarious when you find a noob that didn't take it). Second wind is necessary in some sense to make them viable. However, at the moment, it is too passive. Second Wind should be a cooldown that requires them to waste resources, like a rogues recuperate or an spriest's mana, to use. Having it be automatic and not skill based is wrong. This is what makes it seem op.
    1st they nerf VE then they get rid of it and make it a cd now warriors get 2nd wind which is way more op than VE was b4 the nerfs

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Alocin View Post
    I'm don't see the problem here...

    A healing spec can't deal enough damage to negate the limited healing of a dps spec...that sounds about right.
    The problem and point you missed is that a shadow (priest dd spec) with non ideal gear was unable to kill an idle warrior, due to his passive selfhealing.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    The problem and point you missed is that a shadow (priest dd spec) with non ideal gear was unable to kill an idle warrior, due to his passive selfhealing.
    This is just a very, very bad priest then, because on my Disc Priest, level 89, i could easily enough beat down a 90 warrior as we decided to test this, So if i can in Disc, There is no way it's that hard for someone who knows shadow, and yes, he had second wind also

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-06 at 12:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    You're also a healer so you probably don't know how to burst as Shadow.
    I'm going for this, because if you don't know Shadow then try it, you'll be pretty damn terrible lol
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  20. #20
    I have to admit, I lol'd really hard at all the people bringing up your gear.

    "Well, you see, you couldn't kill an AFK player of the same level because your gear was bad."

    At what point in WoW's history would this have been an acceptable answer? Never? Okay, thought so.

    Hey, what other class can this currently happen with? None of them? Oh, weird.
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